• Off-Topic

  • 2023: Year of the Linux Desktop (Redux)

murbert Fedora Cinnamon is also near the top of my list for Linux Noobs. It has fractional scaling and gestures and the interface is very windows like.

Axios I think If someone in these de would really apply themselves a great desktop may someday come of it
Yes I know it takes alot of work and that may be the underlying main issue its easier to copy something
than make your own.

It would make sense to me that long-established, successful for-profit linux merchant Red Hat are best in the position to take the lead on a desktop with broad Linux appeal. Reason: ways, means, personnel.
That said, they'd need to create a non-enterprise desktop with broad appeal...they ain't got that.
** Like murbert said, there are prettier noob-friendly distros out there...who are not in a position to mass market or unify.
**and like Axios said "Just a hard call. Its hard to when manufactures arent on the bandwagon to."

I'm left with one conclusion, Tom. Maybe the idea of FOSS has to win hearts and minds before Linux can?

edit/verbose

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        • Post #7

        brent foss is free if you don't value your time

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            • Post #9

            brent I think things have gotten easier though and user interfaces have gotten better. I however think having to tinker at times when not up to it is one reason for lower appeal.

              tomscharbach The reasons are obvious to all Linux desktop users (relatively difficult installation

              Are you kidding? It takes me a long time to install Windows. Coming up with three security questions and three answers, dismissing attempts to get me to create a Windows account so I won't have a "limited" experience. And on and on, trying to keep Windows out of my limited experience.

              I can install Solus (and most other popular distros) in very few minutes, having provided very limited information about myself. And much of it defaulted.

              EDIT: Upon further thought, you're probably right if we throw in the need to download a Linux .ISO file and install it on a DVD or a USB flash drive. Windows is off to a pretty good head start when a person buys a computer with it already installed. From that point on, I still think Linux has the advantage. Not a lot of computers available with Linux installed, though.

              I keep a Windows 10 VM handy for running my one Windows-only application -- my Nook ebook reader, but I very seldom use it anymore. I mostly read a Nook book at night to read myself to sleep. Beats drugs. I created a Windows 11 VM a while back, but I didn't much care for it. Just getting too old, I guess, and set in my ways.

                  WetGeek Are you kidding?

                  No. I am not kidding when I say that switching over to Linux involves "relatively difficult installation".

                  Keep this in mind: The typical Windows 10 user switching to Linux desktop has never installed an operating system. Windows came with the computer, and the most any of them have done is to reset Windows. Almost none have installed Windows from scratch or needed to do so.

                  If you are capable of doing so, put your long and extensive experience with installing Linux distros into a mental lockbox, and think through the process of installing Solus with fresh eyes, from the perspective of someone who has never installed an operating system.

                  Start with deciding which ISO (Budgie, Gnome, MATE, Plasma) to download, then move on to downloading the ISO and checking SHA256SUMS without instructions about why you should do it or how to do it, then move on to preparing your disk (enable UEFI, disable Secure Boot, disable Fast Start, make sure that your disk is GPT formatted, cut over to AHCI if necessary, and so on), and then move on to installation instructions, decide which instructions to follow (USB or CD, ISO-based or DD-based installation, and so on), find a USB/CD and prepare it, and then boot from the USB without knowing how to do that or how to change the BIOS Menu to enable USB boot if not enabled, and then, finally, move on to the installation process itself, making choices about whether to install standalone or install alongside Windows 10, whether or not to use LVM, and so on.

                  For you and me, each of us with scores of Linux installations under our belt, none of this seems at all difficult, but I don't think that is true for an "ordinary home desktop user" of Windows without our knowledge or experience. I think for most all of them, the installation process is "relatively difficult".

                      tomscharbach I think for most all of them, the installation process is "relatively difficult".

                      Yeah, as I implied in my edit, Windows has a huge advantage given that it's pre-installed on nearly every personal computer that's sold. Linux will need to find a way to do the same, which would remove most of the challenges to installing it.

                      Google has managed to do it with Chromebooks.

                          WetGeek Google has managed to do it with Chromebooks.

                          Chrome OS is what Linux desktop for "ordinary home desktop users" should aspire to become. I don't own a Chromebook, but I looked at the school-supplied Chromebooks used by my grandchildren over the holidays. Everything is graphical, everything is crisp and well-designed, everything is simple and intuitive, nothing breaks, updates are automatic and invisible, and you don't have to understand a single thing about the plumbing underneath it all to use it productively.

                              tomscharbach Chrome OS is what Linux desktop for "ordinary home desktop users" should aspire to become.

                              Maybe Chrome OS could be a gateway drug for Linux? Lots of users might go no farther, but the curious ones might take the plunge and never look back. Like us.

                                  WetGeek I think it's more of an extension of how you live in the browser. They just use Google products.

                                      Brucehankins They just use Google products.

                                      Yeah. I bought one for my wife, because I got tired of her going through expensive laptops, on which she simply played solitaire games. I figured she could do that on a Chromebook. And I'd read a few times in the forum that folks had installed Solus on one, so I figured the sky's the limit.

                                      Turned out, I couldn't install Solus on that Chromebook. And the solitaire games available for it sucked rocks compared with the Linux versions she'd become accustomed to. And the kiss of death ... it wouldn't connect to our wi-fi, so Amazon got it back.

                                      I've noticed that other Chromebooks sell for nearly a grand, so they must be much more capable, but for the cost of a cheap new Chromebook, I can buy her a nice refurbished DELL Latitude that will run Solus flat out. And all the games she's used to. So that's what she uses now.

                                          WetGeek I've noticed that other Chromebooks sell for nearly a grand, so they must be much more capable

                                          There is some really nice hardware out there from ASUS, Google, and HP. I could easily live with one of the high end options and be mostly happy since I also have a very capable desktop. As the only option, I wouldn't stay strictly with ChromeOS no matter how good the hardware was.

                                              Brucehankins Seven years ago my niece (brother's kid) asked me to help her understand her new chromebook. I was petrified. No accessible filesystem. Not a single app. Just a browser. The whole system might have been 750MB was my impression. You used all apps (MS Office, etc) from the cloud and saved your life to the cloud. Conceptually I was revolted. This isn't computing. Hope things have changed🙂 maybe she got a low-end one?

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                                                  • Post #20

                                                  ShintoPlasm I've been daily driving Fedora for a couple years now and SELinux hasn't been an issue even once.

                                                    ShintoPlasm they hit the brick wall known as SELinux and give up on Linux forever.

                                                    I have no idea what you mean by this. Fedora and some Fedora-based distros, like Ultramarine, are some of my favorites for non-Solus distros. They're fast, with very little bloat, and they don't limit me in the ways many others do. Fedora is one I could easily live with if Solus were to disappear suddenly.

                                                      brent Nope, it's all in the cloud. That's the entire idea. It's not a bad one, it's just not an ideal that everyone could live with. I prefer full control and access over my hardware and software. Newer Chromebooks can utilize Android apps and run something similar to WSL2.
                                                      For work or school, I could easily live in a web browser and do everything from the web.

                                                          brent You used all apps from the cloud and saved your life to the cloud. Conceptually I was revolted. This isn't computing.

                                                          It isn't traditional computing, in the sense that operating systems like Windows, macOS and Linux are designed around locally installed applications and locally stored data. Chrome OS is somewhat akin to what we used to call "thin client" computing, in the sense that a Chromebook is designed around remote (these days, cloud-based) installed applications and remotely stored data. To my mind, the two models reflect a differing philosophy on how to access applications, services and data.

                                                          Both computing models are probably adequate to meet most needs of an "ordinary home desktop user", in the sense that both models work well for web browsing, web-based shopping, banking and so on, social media, e-mail, messaging, streaming media, word processing/spreadsheets, video chat and remote collaboration, and basic photo and video editing.

                                                          I don't own or use a Chromebook, so my experience is limited, but I have a friend at the railroad who uses a modern Chromebook instead of a traditional laptop, and he gets along just fine with the "thin client" model. My husband uses something of a hybrid model using Windows 10, doing most of his work and storing his data online, and that seems to work well for him. My guess is that the "thin client" model would work for a high percentage of "ordinary home desktop users", and the fact that almost all kids are using school-supplied Chromebooks these days suggests to me that the consumer computing market is headed in the "thin client" direction.

                                                          But to each his own. I prefer the traditional computing model, and I would never, under any circumstances, lock myself into the Google ecosystem.

                                                          What impresses me about Chrome OS is that the UI layer is well-designed and intuitive, the kernel and OS layers are stable and trouble-free, updates are automatic and invisible, and users don't need to know anything about the plumbing to be productive or use ChromeOS long-term. Android, iOS, macOS and Windows 11 meet that "easy to use, hassle-free" standard as well. although imperfectly. I would like to see Linux desktop rise to that level, because that is what most consumers want and need.

                                                              [deleted] Sounds like something closer to mobile phones.

                                                              Yup, that's a good model to use for comparison, as well. My grandkids use their phones for just about everything except schoolwork and games. I suspect that's true of a lot of people. The way in which people use technology is changing fast.