- Edited
brent Flatpaks are wrapped applications. Nothing is added or deleted, nor is the application's code changed. If the application sucks, the wrapped application will still suck, and vice a versus.
Ubuntu Budgie vs Solus?
tomscharbach my concerns were purely the app's state before wrapping
brent I have to imagine more useful flathub programs will be put into the repository eventually (or if demand is enough).
The rest puts it on parity with windows (including disappointment), and gives developers better access without as much of a hassle in maintaining (passed on to a few windows specific developers that maybe it might be a good idea to sell something that is flatpak compatible).
brent my concerns were purely the app's state before wrapping
Yup, well, that's a problem. Linux has about ten times as many applications as makes sense, and way too many of them are poorly designed, indifferently maintained, outdated, and possibly insecure. I stick with mainstream applications for that reason.
qsl I have to imagine more useful flathub programs will be put into the repository eventually ...
That may be true for FOSS applications, but it is not true for proprietary and semi-proprietary applications. In the past, those applications (e.g. Android Studio, Bitwig Studio, Gitkracken, Chrome, Mendeley, Skype, Slack, Spotify, Plex and Viber) were packaged into the "Third Party" repository, but that is no longer the case. The Third Party repository is closed.
tomscharbach qsl thanks for responding. I think it goes back to perception.
Solus, for instance, dedicated crew, good-sized repo, and they are proud and stand by their curated apps they offer. Probably a lot of distros this way (not AUR obviously).
They call third-party apps "third party" with the disclaimer it didn't originate with them, you've been warned.
A vaguer warning comes with Flat/Snap/Appimages...a distro doesn't claim them as their own, but offers these "repos" or "stores" as auxiliary packages, mostly open source and generally reliable.
So the with this perception of mine, when I began with solus way back when I thought NEVER step outside the repo. Then we all wind up stepping outside the repo, baby steps, but my comfort level does not ever improve outside of Solus' curation. Although we all have to do it for something. I have a few.
brent One of the big impediments (well, at least for me) to using linux in general is those niche programs that either there isn't a good linux replacement (still can't find an acceptable replacement for IDDM, for instance) or are too much of a pain to use in linux (numerous audio programs that are just... no).
I actually think this plays to Solus's favor, allowing them to play to their strengths (again) without being overburdened with maintaining the flavor of the month or niche applications, and also giving better access to developers who are proprietary/profit driven with an easy product to sell that doesn't have to contend with the peculiarities of each distribution.
This is why flatpak was mandatory distribution criteria for me (and I hope in flourishes).
- Edited
jrsilvey I use one snap btw and it kills me because snaps constantly break in Solus. I don't know if it's a Solus thing or a Snap thing. But anyway I hate Snaps.
I have no idea, but Ubuntu is pushing toward Snaps across the board. In Ubuntu Budgie, even Firefox is a Snap.
jrsilvey [T]he real fear I have is that Microsoft will buy the Snapcraft Store
Microsoft and Canonical seem to be moving closer and closer in recent years. I don't know whether Microsoft will buy Canonical or the Snapcraft store, but I suspect that it won't be too long before Microsoft develops official versions of cross-platform applications (e.g. Edge) as Snaps. The Flatpak is an unofficial wrap not supported by Microsoft.
qsl One of the big impediments (well, at least for me) to using linux in general is those niche programs that either there isn't a good linux replacement ...
I have the same issue. Although the primary reason I use Windows 11 on my laptops is that Linux power/battery management is still inadequate (70% of Windows, and 3-5 F higher outside case temperature), the secondary reason is that I have searched high and low for Linux replacements for niche applications I use on the road (e.g. MyRadar), without success.
qsl I actually think this plays to Solus's favor, allowing them to play to their strengths (again) without being overburdened with maintaining the flavor of the month or niche applications, and also giving better access to developers who are proprietary/profit driven with an easy product to sell that doesn't have to contend with the peculiarities of each distribution.
I agree, particularly when it comes to proprietary and semi-proprietary applications. I hope that it won't be too long before the Third Party repository becomes redundant. It already is for about a dozen of the applications listed.
jrsilvey Snaps constantly break everywhere. Canonical is working to improve them, and they are making great strides, but it still sucks. With help from (mostly entirely done by) Mozilla, the Firefox snap has went from an 18 second cold start to a 8 second cold start over the past year or so. Other snaps don't get the same attention, so they're still plagued with performance issues.
I don't know that MS taking over the snap project would change much honestly. Adoption of snaps has been pretty stagnant, and we see Ubuntu based distros ditching snaps for native file formats for flatpak apps more and more. I think the opinion of Canonical doesn't help here, almost as much as the poor performance of snaps.
I have firefox snap version on Ubuntu Mate and after last snap version the startup time is now only 3 sec.
5 months later
- Edited
UBUNTU 20.04 BUDGIE CONS---
--software center a hot mess between gnome sc and synaptic. both "main" repos that show you software marked "UNSAFE" and then give you the install button and package approval. how responsible is that? I didn't bother with the other two or three repos.
--thoroughly shady by pushing snaps as your first choice---, some kind of crooked deal here. snaps integrate into Plank. Flatpaks do not. Ehhh. My Flats don't make it to app menu surprise the Snaps do. Nothing weird there...Flatpaks are the #2 thing they push on you. DEB OH DEB FILE wherefore art thou? ("NOWHERE" echo echo echo) Sus/ as the kids say.. Ubuntu Budgie does not offer deb files for FF and Chromium....they sell Chromium in their SC as "a deb installed with Snap." wth? a debian distro without deb packages for the big apps????
Me at Canonical office revamp: "Could you tell me what it is exactly that you do here?"
UBU/DEB: 8 ways to skin a cat
SOLUS: 2-3 ways to skin a cat---much preferable. (when you lessen the variables for failure rather than kitchen-sinking the variables...)
--biggest complaint: appearance of a dishonest ethos, sensibility, and vision. Or at least one where priorities were decided by way too many knuckleheads. When you get used to Solus' honesty and simplicity this is really hard. I've been around long enough to know that .deb packages are the foundation of debian distros, not Snap. It's like they are embarrassed by .debs now....
--two clocks on desktop on purpose? Really? What for?
--dpkg and apt are the same commands? why? what for? why not one?
20.0.4 PLUSES:
--totally AWESOME implementation of Budgie. Edge: Solus but past tense
--can install outside .deb packages easy instead of hassling with targz or source code (again, get used to getting your debs outside ubu...)
--Nautilus is default file manager and is fully functional
--In this Budgie I can move my desktop files wherever I want them
--last but not least it's Budgie!
--I'd have to say a millisecond slower than Solus but this is negligible
--retained gedit and gnome-disks as defaults. these are superior to me
--I like gnome-terminal but default Tilix is very similar
--printer and scanner detected, drivers no hassle but some work.
edit:--can use open source nouveau drivers here. usually I need NVIDIAs everywhere I go including solus...I know that has to do with the chemistry of hardware parts and nothing else
shooting from hip with little knowledge of Deb or Ubu history (except telemetry scandal way back), 6 hours straight of being in Ubu Budgie/
this feels like I'm dancing with the devil. I don't want to feel that way. there is so much recklessness in their philosophy compared to Solus. but the Budgie experience I craved is back and incredible here.
booting back into Mate now.
I got Ubuntu Budgie ready for daily use. It's not a matter of cutting the cord with Solus. I can do that. I only want a fully functional Budgie. But man when I log out of here I feel I need a shower. that's never happened before.
My opinion may change tomorrow. But I can say with confidence we got it good at Solus.
brent yeah I agree we have it pretty good here. There are some fixes available online for the Flatpak issues, but yeah, it's the Snaps for me. Hopefully you find it agreeable enough for your Budgie fix until issues are resolved on Solus. I think you will, even with the issues, it's still good.
- Edited
brent A few thoughts:
(1) The current LTS version of UB (and the one I believe you have installed) is Ubuntu Budgie 22.04 LTS rather than 20.04 LTS. I mention that only to clarify for people who read this thread.
(2) Ubuntu Budgie uses Nemo (not Nautilus) as the file manager. The change was made in 2019.
(3) With respect to Snaps: Snaps are a Canonical product. Ubuntu is a Canonical product. Ubuntu has been increasingly incorporating Snaps into Ubuntu and Ubuntu flavors as default for several years. The debate over Snaps has been vigorous and contentious, but Snaps are a fact of life for Ubuntu users.
(4) I tend to use distros OTB, installing little software, but like all Ubuntu users have noticed, when available, a Snap is usually listed first on the software installation list for that app. Debs are usually also available, but the user has to elect/select the deb installation.
(5) I would prefer that Ubuntu's software center clearly designated which installation options on a list were Snaps and which were debs, but I don't think that the practice of not doing so is "some kind of crooked deal", any more than Solus's failure to designate which apps in the software center are KDE and which are Gnome is "some kind of crooked deal". However, the failure to do so is a byproduct of the fact that Linux distros in general seem to assume that the user is experienced at a level many "ordinary home desktop users" are not. Linux could use a bit more emphasis on "truth in labeling" in many respects, and the failure of both Solus and Ubuntu in this regard is an example.
(6) Firefox and Chrome, both of which provide official Snaps, are available only as Snaps in the Browser Ballot, in line with Ubuntu's policies. Other browsers, such as Edge, for which Microsoft does not provide an official Snap, are available only as deb installations. A few browsers in the Brower Ballot are available in both formats. In the case of Firefox and Chrome, it is possible to install a deb, but the user needs to download the deb file and install the deb file through the installer.
(7) The "unsafe" designation (if you take a moment to read the description) means that a particular app contains proprietary code that cannot be checked, and the user is warned accordingly. The designation means only what it says it means. It does not mean that the app is malicious or contains malicious code, but only that the code cannot be checked and the user assumes the risk.
(8) When I used Ubuntu Budgie 22.04 LTS, I used the "Traditional Budgie" layout to approximate the Solus Budgie layout as closely as possible. The "Traditional Budgie" layout does not use a Plank, so I can't comment on Flatpak behavior on the Plank. However, Flatpaks installed on Ubuntu Budgie 22.04 LTS, like Flatpaks installed on Solus Budgie, require a restart before the app will show up in the menus. I wonder if that is also the case for the Plank.
You are having an obviously strong negative reaction to Ubuntu. Moving from Solus to Ubuntu does take some getting used to, and you may never get to the point where you are comfortable with Ubuntu. That is for you to decide. Ubuntu Budgie 22.04 LTS is an excellent implementation of the Budgie DE layer, and that's a fact. Whether UB is a distro you will want to use is up to you.
[deleted]
How dare other distros not be Solus >:0
tomscharbach Moving from Solus to Ubuntu does take some getting used to, and you may never get to the point where you are comfortable with Ubuntu.
That observation is quite true, but it would apply to nearly any other non-Solus distro. It doesn't mean that there's anything horribly wrong with Ubuntu in particular. Many love it.
I'm still amazed at the lengths one might go to, in order to solve a Nautilus problem, when simply installing Dolphin onto ones beloved Solus Budgie would instantly bring relief. And Dolphin would be trivial to remove (if desired) after Nautilus is once again working right.
[deleted]
I'm still amazed at the lengths one might go to, in order to solve a Nautilus problem, when simply installing KDE Plasma would instantly bring relief.
FTFY