majamee I did not get the impression from your follow-up posts that you were clarifying for the opposite interpretation. I suspect the others had the same difficulty.

@c432 did not go the "extra mile". They came here to make a remark that they knew full well was inflammatory because of our previous responses here and other places. One that was rightfully treated as an insult as already discussed in our previous responses to you.

Now, if it's constructive discussion you want about the roadmap, I have already made our stance perfectly clear. Until such a time as the content of the roadmap (beyond the calendar months that I regret advocating for) actually changes, we will not be publishing an updated roadmap.

The Roadmap is not a description of goals for specific versions of Solus either. It's nothing more than a long-form TODO list to inform the Solus Community what we have planned for the near future. And once we get 4.1 out of the door, I think we will probably stop assigning new tasks as specific goals for each release. That way we can refresh the ISO more often, without getting blocked by larger ongoing efforts.

    YAWNS 😴

    This kind of sterile discussions isn't just tiring but on the long run they are just toxic (this is just one of them but along the years there are many) and it's always the same people who have to handle these guys who criticize usually in a non-constructive or in a biased way because they only take some elements out of the global context, then they post links to demonstrate they are right, then quote themselves to show they are kind person and finally pretend to be the victim.

    The time @DataDrake spent reading and answering this discussion (and the other similar ones) is time he could have spent working on Solus or on his PhD (and the soonest he finishes it, to soonest he will have more free time and thus time for Solus) or simply to rest and relax because believe it or not, he's a human just like you.
    Same for the blog posts, perhaps it would make you happy to have a blog post saying we have updated MATE to 1.22, we have updated Plasma to version x.y.z, etc... but seeing Solus is a small team it would just be wasting time on details while it could be used on more important things... Don't you see the updates in the Software center ???
    The ones who complain about the frequency of blog posts are also the ones that complain about things not moving fast enough... As if posting more on the blog would speed up things...

      kyrios As much as I too would like to see updates posted on blogs and roadmaps, I agree with you, I'd rather see real progress in the distro than social media updates. Shame there isn't someone that speaks enough technical lingo but might not be able to do development, to participate and able to update social as their contribution. Wouldn't that appease us all in a good way? I'm not saying we need this, but it would be a good thing, right?
      I mean the most important thing I remember from teamwork/business/etc is communication.

          dbarron I mean the most important thing I remember from teamwork/business/etc is communication.

          IF things get done, otherwise it's fairly useless to say non stop "we are where we were 10 minutes/hours/days/centuries ago".
          Announce what you've done (if it's relevant and useful) when you've done it: if you stay quiet it's because nothing happened.

              EbonJaeger
              And what major changes Budgie 10.5 brought to the table if we exclude updating it to the latest Gnome stack and some cosmetic changes?

              Harvey
              Name one big feature that Solus got after Ikey left.

              DataDrake
              I know they are not deadlines but they are not supposed to be a list of good wishes without any obligations to follow them either. I appreciate your work guys, I know you're doing it in your free time pro bono but it's obvious that development stalled without Ikey, there's nothing wrong with that, he left a big shoes to fill in.

                      c432 It looks like you know what "big feature" means: Please, enlighten us and define what "big feature" is. Meanwhile, I recommend you check the Budgie part on https://getsol.us/2019/03/17/solus-4-released/
                      If you don't see ANY NEW relevant features there, then you are simply biased against the project.
                      You could check the dev tracker too, but it's been said and pointed out too many times in this thread (tip: look up there).
                      On a side note, I like how people spend their time making new accounts just for the sakes of toxicity. It's jokingly funny.

                          EQLucky Big feature for me would be something on the scale of Ikey's Intel patches.

                            c432 And what major changes Budgie 10.5 brought to the table if we exclude updating it to the latest Gnome stack and some cosmetic changes?

                            Those "cosmetic changes" were huge quality of life improvements for Budgie. And Josh and I have made it abundantly clear that no major changes to Budgie will happen until Budgie 11 and that we aren't working on it this year. This is also a pointless argument. Ikey himself hadn't put out a release for over a year. 10.4 came out in August, 2017.

                            c432 Name one big feature that Solus got after Ikey left.

                            1. These new forums.
                            2. Huge internal improvements to Solus' long-term "bus factor".
                            3. An entirely new infrastructure which receives more frequent updates and costs significantly less to operate.
                            4. Several new Global Maintainers who work on huge portions of Solus packages.

                            But of course you are looking for some new feature in the OS, which we are working on, just not as quickly as you'd like apparently.

                            c432 I know they are not deadlines but they are not supposed to be a list of good wishes without any obligations to follow them either. I appreciate your work guys, I know you're doing it in your free time pro bono but it's obvious that development stalled without Ikey, there's nothing wrong with that, he left a big shoes to fill in.

                            Who said we aren't still going to finish all the things we set out to do? Many of those things we never expected to have completely finished this year. Others we are actively working on, just at a slower pace than we expected. We still intend on finishing everything on that roadmap and I don't appreciate your insinuation that we aren't going to.

                            And I've already addressed your belief that "development has stalled". We seem to have wildly different definitions of what development is and I kindly ask you to stop with this nonsense. A ton of work goes into Solus every day and making claims like this is an insult to everyone who contributes.

                                  dbarron CorvusRuber See... c432 clearly demonstrated that even with a few blog posts focusing on the main news is already very hard to follow for some...

                                  c432 And what major changes Budgie 10.5 brought to the table if we exclude updating it to the latest Gnome stack and some cosmetic changes?

                                  Everything is detailed in this blog post
                                  And this other blog post clearly says there won't be any major change in Budgie 10.5 (as big things will be implemented on Budgie 11)

                                  c432 Name one big feature that Solus got after Ikey left.

                                  Solus 4 ... huh... wait... oh there is a blog post about this too...
                                  (in the less fancy things, the infrastructure move from OVH to the RIT servers, the new weblate instance, these forums with the 0auth integration, the work on ferryd, cuppa, the upgrade of phabricator, etc... of course these aren't "bling bling" shiny visible things, but just try to run the distribution without this and you'll see it would not work so well... without the servers & ferryd, you wouldn't get any update and without these forums, you won't be able to complain here, ...)

                                              kyrios dbarron CorvusRuber See... c432 clearly demonstrated that even with a few blog posts focusing on the main news is already very hard to follow for some...

                                              Put on a bot posting at random intervals on the blog/forum/Reddit/whatever some variation on the theme "All is well, we're working hard, wohooo !!!" 😅 ?

                                                  02.11.2018
                                                  Ikey Doherty, the founder and lead dev of Solus, has left the project...

                                                  07.09.2019
                                                  Justin: due to personal issues between myself and the team, I will be moving on from Solus...

                                                  17.09.2019
                                                  sunnyflunk: Stepping down from Core Team

                                                  17.09.2019
                                                  c432: After Ikey's departure Solus is in the maintenance mode. Roadmap is just a list of good wishes I'm afraid.

                                                  ==============

                                                  2018
                                                  crom5: Please don't get me wrong, the following thoughts are expressed with best wishes and intentions. It is my understanding that Solus is an "independent" distribution. The bad news is that in this "strange" times it is forbidden to survive as such. Recent Ikey important life decisions were just so predictable. Similarly, it is very easy to guess what will happen with Solus within a relatively short period of time if the developers doesn't start to earn something from their hard work and efforts...

                                                  ==============

                                                  08.09.2019
                                                  Manjaro is taking things professionally. While the Manjaro community will be responsible for the development of the project and other related activities, a company has been formed to work as its legal entity and handle the commercial agreements and professional services.

                                                    CorvusRuber (humor) But wouldn't this fictitious bot need to ping "all" and make sure "all" were still well before posting? I mean maybe a dev died or lost internet access, same thing really, right? (yes, still joking)

                                                        dbarron But wouldn't this fictitious bot need to ping "all" and make sure "all" were still well before posting?

                                                        No, why, should it ? Total randomness, just for the lulz.

                                                          crom5 Your "chronicle" is clearly focused on the bad news, as it misses the entries about introductions of new global maintainers (Girt and ermo). Not to mention big infrastructure improvements, but... they were mentioned in this thread multiple times already, and it seems that no one cares about them 🙂
                                                          And how Manjaro is relevant here?

                                                            Thanks to the team for all the hard work. 🙏 Know that it is appreciated by many, despite such recurrent pointless discussions. I also like that there is a roadmap at all, though I understand the reluctance to share plans so openly given that it sometimes leads to precisely this.

                                                            I finished my PhD about a year ago, so I know how time consuming it can be. Hang in there @DataDrake !

                                                              So, to sum things up.

                                                              • Communication is kind of quiet lately, but the community keeps defending this to be okay. Aka nothing to report.
                                                              • At the same time huge changes are being made in the background, still nothing worth reporting as it seems, at least not via Blog or roadmap.
                                                              • By now I get the strong feeling that we should be more precise in the discussion about what we are actually talking. Meaning Solus OS is getting regular updates, but right now no upgrades aka postponed for later. At the same time Solus as project is still very active and a lot of efforts obviously went into improving the infrastructure.
                                                              • Even so this page here is called discuss it is more like an Q&A so far as any input about how communication could be improved is considered to be already answered and there are no plans to change the way it is.
                                                              • The general tone tends to be passive aggressive, maybe due to mixing up Solus OS and Solus as overall project. Grateful for everyone's efforts, but at the same time this could be really a meaningful discussion instead of... (missing the correct words to describe)

                                                                majamee Not sure what you are trying to accomplish?

                                                                1. Nothing to report.
                                                                2. Everything we have discussed here has been disclosed in previous Blog posts. Anything happening "behind the scenes" is either visible on the bug tracker or related to ongoing Roadmap tasks.
                                                                3. Again, you are trying to apply invalid definitions. Solus is receiving regular updates of software, new software, and continued support. These are not merely "updates" to the OS, but normal operations. "Upgrades" is misleading. We have clearly laid out a roadmap of software development tasks for core Solus software. Most of these are full rewrites or complete replacements and not merely upgrades.
                                                                4. This was bound to be a Q&A because it was so open-ended.
                                                                5. I'm not trying to be passive-aggressive. I'm trying to end a discussion on things that have already been clearly discussed and aren't going to change. There was never going to be any meaningful discussion about the Roadmap because it's not up for discussion. Period. Full-stop.