Other Interesting Distros, Part 6

tomscharbach

brent Its seamless with office suite/365 cloud stuff, plus ms accounts, so its tight with microsoft world. plus its design makes good for remote access application galore ...

When I was testing ChromeOS Flex, I had no problems using Microsoft 365 Web and the other online Microsoft apps/services I tested with the Chrome browser. I think that the same would be true of all of the Chromium-based browsers. I understand from Microsoft documentation that there are compatibility issues between some Microsoft online apps/services (e.g. limited Microsoft Teams capabilities in Safari and Firefox) but on the whole, all of the mainstream Chromium-based browsers will work with Microsoft online products.

I think that it works the other way around, too, at least for the most part. When I was testing ChromeOS Flex, I found that spreadsheets used to track volunteers in the Sauk County GOTV effort during the 2012 combined Democratic campaign were still in my Google Docs folders, as well a couple of calendars and other detrius, and I could access and work with this afternoon using Kubuntu and Edge.

brent Never saw it as google-exclusive

I think that the intent of Chromebooks is to allow users seamless access to Google online apps/services. So while not "exclusive" to Google, Chromebooks were designed and deployed to provide inexpensive and seamless compatibility with Google online apps/services, that is the reason why Chromebooks were developed. Chromebooks clicked along just fine with only the Chrome browser and embedded Google apps from 2011 to 2018, when Android integration was built into Chromebooks.

I've never given Chromebooks much thought, but seeing how quick ChromeOS Flex is in comparison to Kubuntu, as well as my Chromebook friend's glowing reports on his Chromebook, has prompted me to give Chromebooks a look. With Android support, it would be a snap to install Edge, MS Mail/Calendar and all the other apps I use on my iOS phone, and Chromebooks might be a workable environment.

The only firm conclusion I've reached is that ChromeOS Flex on a Windows laptop is useless to me, because ChromeOS Flex doesn't support Android apps installation through the Play Store.

Reading between the lines, it sounds like you might have used a Chromebook at some point. Is that right?

brent

tomscharbach Nah, not a laptop guy at all or a cloud guy. I still pay some bills with a stamp and envelope🙂. But enough of the cool kids have shown me what it's all about and I had to pinch hit with a chromebook in the 365 environment all related to work. Connected with colleagues in Slack with the Chromebook. I felt all modern and stuff. For employment related it was cool. You are no longer using desktop app packages...except Chrome.
It's a conscious decision to forgo a hard drive or disk backups and operate completely autonomous of your hardware [save it being the platform for your journey] without the tradtional way of doing things. In some ways I find that very liberating...in other ways I have trust issues.
I really dig the Linux 'Chromebook' in concept. I may spend more time with it.
Thanks for the detailed description of proper vs. flex. Do you really think a chromebook would let you install Edge on it? I see all the chrome-store wrassling in this thread.

tomscharbach

brent Do you really think a chromebook would let you install Edge on it?

Absolutely. Edge and most of the other core Microsoft apps are in the Play Store, and should install without any problems on a modern (post-2018) Chromebook. I use Edge on my Android devices. If Android is any indication, though, I would not be able to uninstall Chrome or other core Google apps. I also have questions about how Edge Android would work on a laptop screen rather than a tablet screen, although the Play Store photos look like it would be okay.

I'd like to see ChromeOS Flex open up to Android -- that's its basic flaw -- but I don't think that is going to happen. I think that Google developed ChromeOS Flex to sell Chromebooks by allowing schools and businesses to migrate to Chromebooks while keeping inventory costs under control by repurposing Windows and macOS laptops during the transition.

brent

tomscharbach i ubmit to you a big D'oh! Forgot all about Playstore. Very nice.

tomscharbach I think that Google developed ChromeOS Flex to sell Chromebooks by allowing schools and businesses to migrate to Chromebooks while keeping inventory costs under control by repurposing Windows and macOS laptops during the transition.

I think that's a great strategy and if I had to guess its going brilliant for them althought I don't know the $ return on repurposed. At the collegiate level these repurposed dell and hp laptops are just chromebooks for classrooms (that leech right into Canvas/Blackboard [basic school software] but serving the underserved/underrepresented populations is where the demand surges. It only pushes them to buy new CB's with their financial aid money since it's a tool these students know. I know how this works in the EDU industry for Alphabet...but no clue how that works in other industries.
**I remember you had a great post a while back about being part of repurposed laptops going to the under-served communities and I'm on the periperal of that

***@WetGeek sorry for yet another digression on your thread! PS---thinstation is modeled on Win98 with linux underneath so its emphasis is light with a verrrry dated look. but that thing is far beyond chromebook into nether worlds of development..watching the youtube with the dev (named Cupp) it's basically a server that needs to be run in VM to do remote server-y stuff (go with it) with others. this might be closer to the 'thin client' Tom talked about earlier. Its very much an administrator distro. I am officially passing on reviewing it. @Axios 's ubuntudde is my next fun..another time

WetGeek

brent sorry for yet another digression on your thread

I keep pointing out that it's not my thread. I enjoy everyone's participation here. And I'm looking forward to your review of Ubuntudde. I'd never heard of it, and it's got me curious.

tomscharbach

brent I think that's a great strategy and if I had to guess its going brilliant for them althought I don't know the $ return on repurposed.

Although I assume (don't know) that Google charges OEM's for the use of ChromeOS on Chromebooks, which, if so, provides a small but steady income stream to Google from Chromebook sales in both the consumer and education/business markets, the ROI from that income stream is nominal. You would be astounded, I think, to learn how little Microsoft charges major OEM's for Windows OEM (that is, device specific) licenses. If Google charges OEM's for use of ChromeOS on Chromebooks, I assume that whatever Google charges for the license would be next to nothing.

The primary ROI from the education/business market comes from the ongoing income stream provided by sales of Google Admin, paid support, and other Google products/services for managing deployed ChromeOS and ChromeOS Flex devices and providing the background infrastructure in which ChromeOS and ChromeOS Flex devices are used in an education/business setting, including GoogleCloud services. I'm not 100% sure about this, but I think that the ROI from that income stream would be identical for either ChromeOS or ChromeOS Flex.

I'm reasonably familiar with the Chromebook education market, so let me make an observation about the education market, using a small (that is, about 1,500 students spread between primary, middle and high school) rural school district.

Education Chromebooks aren't cheap -- the base Dell 3110 model for the education market runs $379 -- because education Chromebooks need to be kid-proof. Hand a kid a $200 consumer Chromebook from Best Buy and it will last two weeks. Penny-wise, pound-foolish as the old saying goes.

Assuming a Chromebook price of $350 and 1,500 students, the cost of Chromebooks would be $525,000 for our imaginary rural school district. That's a big pill to swallow for school district of that size. Spread that cost over five years, however, by repurposing existing Windows devices using ChromeOS Flex, then equipment cost ($100,000 per year) becomes more manageable, probably not much different than normal annual replacement costs. The same considerations would apply to larger school districts and enterprise businesses, but at a larger scale.

That's what I think Google is doing by targeting ChromeOS Flex to the education and business markets. Consumer downloads of ChromeOS Flex are peripheral, more annoyance than anything else, and Google seems to be intentionally crippling that market by refusing to allow ChromeOS Flex access to the Play Store.

WetGeek

brent ubuntudde is my next fun..another time

How's that going for you? It's been described as a beautifull DDE.

stalebrim

WetGeek Reminds me of Ubuntu Kylin, which comes with it's own UKUI (Ubuntu Kylin User Interface) DE. It's meant for Chinese users, but I think it has the same language options as any other Ubuntu.

Re: Chromebooks, GalliumOS is an Ubuntu derivative tailored for Chromebook devices.

brent

tomscharbach Brilliant summation in every way and my guess would be 379+ per laptop. This explains everything but Dell's (or HP's) role. Is there a profit for them? Or are thye just the used repurposed donor bodies for the chromebooks? certainly there would have to be some uniformity (maintenance) if one school board is buying fleet, as it were

brent

stalebrim Ubunti DDE is a marriage of Ubu and Deepin. I went to look at Deepin last night. This, also, is entirely written in Chinese, all of its documentation and downloads page (all other lit I saw; not comprehensive),
WetGeek that may explain why no reviews here! haven't explored the iso yet so hopefully the Ubu part will be in Eng

WetGeek

brent hopefully the Ubu part will be in Eng

The installer is Ubuntu. The first question is Language, and it defaults to American English.

tomscharbach

brent ... my guess would be 379+ per laptop.

Dell offers volume discounts, so my guess is that the price would be lower for a school buying several hundred Chromebooks at a time than the single-purchase retail of $379. My $350 was just a guess. I doubt that Dell discounts too deeply, though, because margins in the laptop market are razor-thin.

brent This explains everything but Dell's (or HP's) role. Is there a profit for them?

Latitude education laptops (both Chromebook and Windows) are the core OEM profit center. Dell also sells accessories, multi-unit storage/charging racks (see photo below from the Dell Education website), administration, maintenance, and upkeep/tracking software systems, consulting services, and other related hardware and services.

Photo Credit: Dell Technologies

School technology is a complex undertaking, both in financial terms and in terms of planning, implementation and ongoing management. The three school districts we worked with (one at a time over several years, with some overlap) took about 6-12 months to make it from decision to implementation (typically phased, but that was pre-COVID), and the year-to-year work after implementation requires skill, resources and investment. Thinking back a decade, I'm really glad that our state's Department of Education got involved in school technology and made efforts like ours redundant. Education technology has moved beyond our skill set, almost certainly, in any event.

brent Of course, or Dell wouldn't be in the business.

Yup. Dell is making a profit from the education market. ROI is the bottom line for any business.

By the way, as an aside, I texted with a grandso, and the Chromebooks used in his school are locked down tight. The kids can't touch the system setup, add or remove any software, and so on, so the Play Store might as well be on Mars as far as they are concerned. I can see why the Play Store isn't needed in ChromeOS Flex.

brent

WetGeek thanks. tonight I will tinker. Like axios, I downloaded a bunch of cool-looking weird stuff from distrowatch (refracta, smartos, biglinux, ubuntudde) and couldn't get any of them to run/load. I didn't want to make it 4 failures in a row with UbuntuDDE so I stopped there.

WetGeek

brent I didn't want to make it 4 failures in a row with UbuntuDDE so I stopped there.

Just keep in mind that I didn't recommend that you install UbuntuDDE. I just pointed out that the Ubuntu installer supports American English.

brent

WetGeek all good, no installs. if I like the iso I usually install. didn't get to that stage last night. i suspect the old usb am storing my isos on (in ventoy) is on its way out.

brent

tomscharbach That picture is pure marketing of course. The laptop vault cart is audited daily. Three people will have the key including to the teacher, but only for that class hour then turn it in before they go home. A child would be nowhere around that cart doing anything strenuous for liability reasons. No you are correct they won't be taking them home. But for the underpriv. students the have refurb loaners that probably, as you alluded, have all the fun stripped out of them.

tomscharbach School technology is a complex undertaking, both in financial terms and in terms of planning, implementation and ongoing management. The three school districts we worked with (one at a time over several years, with some overlap) took about 6-12 months to make it from decision to implementation (typically phased, but that was pre-COVID),

I personally know this process and decisions like this can take 3 years. It's has no "complexity" imho because schools are top-heavy with redundnat admin positions and educational (as opposed to grounds or fixtures; drinking fountains) decisions, by sad inefficient political defaults, have too many chiefs and too many roadblocks...they amble on at a snail's pace.

tomscharbach I can see why the Play Store isn't needed in ChromeOS Flex.

I can see it now, too. I am always fascinated with the economics of these decisions on a macro (not micro) level since I prefer the big picture. Tom thanks for indulging me with your knowledge, I love reading it.

tomscharbach

Web-Centric Computing

After looking at ChromeOS Flex, I decided to spend a couple of months seeing if I could work out a Web-Centric computng environment that worked for me. Thinking about it, I realized that I did 90% of what I do using a browser to access mail, calendar, financial, insurance and medical sites, to shop and to browse. I decided to see if I could move closer to 100%.

I have set up two computers, one Windows and one Linux, to test Web-Centric computing:

Dell 11-3180
Operating System: Kubuntu 22.04 LTS
Utilities: KDU utilities included in Kubuntu default installation
Applications: Microsoft Edge, KWrite, KCalc, Spectacle, Aiseriot Solitaire, Gnome Mahjong
Browser: Microsoft Mail/Calendar, Gmail, Yahoo Mail, Microsoft 365 Web, Financial/Insurance/Medical, Router, Amazon, Zoom
Data: Microsoft OneDrive
Installation Size: 14.8 GB

Dell 11-3120
Operating System: Windows 11 Pro
Utilities: Windows utilities included in Windows 11 Pro OEM installation, Dell utilities included in OEM installation (Dell Command Update, Dell Power Manager, Dell Support Assist)
Applications: Microsoft Edge, Notepad, Calculator, Snipping Tool, Jigsaw Puzzles HD, MyRadar
Browser: Microsoft Mail/Calendar, Gmail, Yahoo Mail, Microsoft 365 Web, Financial/Insurance/Medical, Router, Amazon, Zoom
Data: Microsoft OneDrive
Installation Size: 34.2 GB

As you can see, the two computers are more-or-less set up as peas in a pod.

My other computers (Dell 7070, Dell 7390, Dell 7520) remain set up as traditional Windows 11 or Solus Plasma desktop/laptops (local apps and local data).

I plan to work as much as possible with the two Web-Centric computers through the end of February. I'll report from time to time.

Current Known Issues:
(1) I have not found an acceptable online substitute for Libre Office Draw.
(2) I have not found an acceptable online photo viewer/editor that I trust for OneDrive access.
(3) I have not found a way to run Steam without local installation.
(4) I am not certain about H&R Block online tax preparation.

brent

tomscharbach I plan to work as much as possible with the two Web-Centric computers through the end of February. I'll report from time to time.

far out. excited about the project.
re: 1-4. you are looking for web-based solutions not apps/packages to install on the computers' hard drives, correct?

tomscharbach

Web-Centric Computing

brent re: 1-4. you are looking for web-based solutions not apps/packages to install on the computers' hard drives, correct?

That's the plan.

I may have found a solution to LibreOffice Draw -- Diagram Editor. It has the basic functionality of LibreOffice Draw, and will be sufficient for the simple diagrams I make. It saves in a funky format (drawio), but I usually print to pdf anyway, so that doesn't bother me. The one drawback so far is that Diagram Editor doesn't seem to open odg files, so I won't be able to edit diagrams I've created in the past.

Anyway, I'll plug away at going Web-Centric and post a report in a month or so. I think that it will take me that long to see if working entirely on line is viable.

brent

tomscharbach I may have found a solution to LibreOffice Draw -- Diagram Editor.

No different than Draw or Scribus and quite a nice find:

see the highlighted in blue? Save goes to computer or cloud. This is a great on-the-fly online creative tool.

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