Other Interesting Distros, Part 6

WhiteWolf

Btw anyone here ever used Enlightenment Desktop? If yes what distro were you using?

brent

WhiteWolf Moksha, a fork of Enlightenment, is an awesome desktop, and exclusive to Bodhi. It's not what I'd call compact or streamlined. It's warm and friendly and not overburdened as weird as that sounds. Liked it just fine.

minrvovrfc

brent I'd agree with you if only I could disable tap-to-click for touchpad. Otherwise I have to plug in an external mouse which I have like no room for, which makes that OS unusable to me.

I also wanted to like Pearl Linux but it is very slow. They have their own D.E. which is a cross between LXDE and XFCE and looks nice, and I was willing to tolerate an Ubuntu-based for the first time ever, but better if they offered Debian installer instead of Ubiquity. Also the Pearl Linux ISO comes only with the PearlDE and not updated in over six months so far. :/

https://discuss.getsol.us/d/9144-other-interesting-distros-part-6/44
(Picture of school hallway)

In the 1980's this would be a striking scene. "What movie is it?" or "Are they rich?" would be the first questions I would have asked. 😮

WetGeek

MX Linux 21.2.1 - Coming Attraction

No longer scheduled. This implementation of XFCE could charitably be described as unusable. I have no idea why that is -- whether it simply doesn't work in a VM, or whatever -- but if you don't want to use the defaullt configuration, there's not much configuration possible.

My first attempt was to move the panel from the left side to the bottom of the display. But the only options were vertical and horizontal. Apparently vertical also implies left edge, and horizontal implies top. When I changed the setting from vertical to horizontal, the panel moved to the top of the display. I spent a very long time trying to find a way to move it to the bottom, but there's no position setting, as there is with other distros.

Further attempts to configure the panel failed as well. I created eight virtual desktops, and there was already a workspace switcher on the end of the panel, but it displayed only four of the desktops, from Desktop 5 up to Desktop 8. And the switcher could not be moved to any other location on the panel.

CONCLUSION
I know how to configure an XFCE desktop environment. I just finished posting my review of the Pardus distro using XFCE, and ran into none of these issues. I simply could not get anything done with XFCE on this version of MX Linux. I've spent more than three hours trying, and my interest ended about an hour ago.

brent

WetGeek My first attempt was to move the panel from the left side to the bottom of the display. But the only options were vertical and horizontal. Apparently vertical also implies left edge, and horizontal implies top. When I changed the setting from vertical to horizontal, the panel moved to the top of the display. I spent a very long time trying to find a way to move it to the bottom, but there's no position setting, as there is with other distros.

Further attempts to configure the panel failed as well. I created eight virtual desktops, and there was already a workspace switcher on the end of the panel, but it displayed only four of the desktops, from Desktop 5 up to Desktop 8. And the switcher could not be moved to any other location on the panel.

About three years ago I did not have these problems when using it. It sounds like a sad regression. I can hear your hair falling out. Mine is reading that. You suffer through your art🙂. Horizontal means top only and vertical left? Ugh that's like handcuffs.
I do remember one thing from my time with MX---there were 18 (way too damn many) ways to do something and of those 18 many were not effective but it was a new distro...but nice looking

WetGeek

brent About three years ago I did not have these problems when using it.

I didn't, either. I might have mentioned that I recommended it to some of my friends. I wouldn't have done that unless it worked impressively well.

brent

THINSTATION UPDATE:
A very light no-frills system---very slim---a sleek racehorse. For the live session adwaita is the only icon installed, system bare bones. The only real app (to my surprise) is the Libre Suite, and you can save to the PC...that tells me Libre Office does not have a cloud or cloud presence(?).

A linux distro (based on Crux whatever Crux is) where Chrome is the default and ONLY installed browser tells you what its mission is. See my literature above. This is built for work/school. The variety of desktop login icon shortcut programs is an arsenal: from ssh to ms (3 apps) to google to a bunch of protocol logins I never heard of...this is wired to plug right into the matrix.

FAIL: took 4 screenshots in Thinstation: but Thinstation did not recognize/see both my usb (to transport the photos to show you) or the Ventoy USB. The was no gnome-disks. I completely spacedsudo mount blah blah blah because I forgot sudo whatever find mounted drives command is. I suppose I will email them to meself next time I'm in.
I'm here to inform you it appears Linux does have it's own chromebook...edit/hope someone qualified will review it🙂

minrvovrfc

minrvovrfc Update on Debian "Testing" at my end: Thunar still does what it likes after closing it and opening it again. It does stay with the window size I force on it when I maximize and then set to smaller, but without closing it. I downloaded the latest package directly from XFCE repository and almost went about building it but declined.

It's not a big deal but bothersome considering that, at least the Arch-based distros carrying this D.E. have it squared away.

WetGeek

minrvovrfc LOL this stupid forum didn't let me edit my previous post a second time, was only trying to add the closed double-quote.

That's happened to me as well. It's why I asked a while ago whether adding "edited" was really necessary. I assume it's so that one can't change what was said after someone else has already responded to it.

tomscharbach

@brent Your look at ThinStation is interesting, but I'm afraid that I inadvertently sent you down a rabbit hole when I commented (in an earlier thread) that "Chrome OS Flex, like Chrome OS, is designed as a "thin client", using online applications and online data storage, both accessed through the Chrome browser."

I realize, in retrospect, that I should have said "Chrome OS Flex, like Chrome OS, is designed to be something akin to what we used to call "thin client" architecture, using online applications and online data storage (rather than local applications and local data storage), both accessed through the Chrome browser.

Neither ChromeOS nor ChromeOS Flex is "thin client" in the strict sense, that is a terminal attached to a server and using server applications and data storage exclusively. Many/most thin clients run the UI off the server, as well.

Both ChromeOS and ChromeOS Flex are standalone distros that work from the Chrome browser, which is local, ChromeOS allows users to install Android apps from the Play Store, which are local, and both ChromeOS and ChromeOS Flex allow users to set up a virtual environment similar to WSL2 for running Linux apps.

I'm not sure what terminology should be used to describe ChromeOS and ChromeOS Flex -- maybe "browser-centric", or "online centric" or something similar. I don't know. The defining characteristic of both ChromeOS and ChromeOS Flex is that the Chrome browser is used as access tool for online Google applications. The earlier iterations of ChromeOS were similar to ChromeOS Flex in the sense that the Chrome browser was the only tool in the box. Later iterations of Chrome OS have expanded the role of local Android applications, and, to some extent, Linux applications.

I uninstalled ChromeOS Flex from the 11-3180 this morning, and am setting up Kubuntu to be "browser-centric" to get a better understanding of how that might work for an ordinary home desktop user.

I did a "minimal" Kubuntu installation (browser and utilities, but no office suite or other applications), installed Microsoft Edge, removed Firefox, and then removed a few apps (e.g Okular, Gwenview) that Kubuntu apparently considers "utiilites" (but I don't). At this point, my Kubuntu build has Microsoft Edge, all the KDE utilities, the KWrite text editor, and two games (Aisleriot and Gnome Mahjong) that I use as time wasters.

I think that is all I need for the 11-3180's intended use the railroad, but I will also use the 11-3180 to see how a browser-centric, online-centric environment works for me in real life, using online apps such as the online version of Microsoft 365, other online applications, and OneDrive as my computing environment.

brent

tomscharbach Yeah I do appreciate your literalness (my occupation depends on it sometimes) but thin client aside, we were also talking about Chromebooks/Applebooks in that conversation. I'm excited that Linux has created its own (thinstation).

tomscharbach The defining characteristic of both ChromeOS and ChromeOS Flex is that the Chrome browser is used as access tool for online Google applications.

basically. Its seamless with office suite/365 cloud stuff, plus ms accounts, so its tight with microsoft world. plus its design makes good for remote access application galore (citrix etc). Never saw it as google-exclusive but Chrome is the true portal, the Stargate, if you will. but I don't use any google apps at all even if all I have is a work account. I know all that stuff was born for cloud.

tomscharbach

brent Its seamless with office suite/365 cloud stuff, plus ms accounts, so its tight with microsoft world. plus its design makes good for remote access application galore ...

When I was testing ChromeOS Flex, I had no problems using Microsoft 365 Web and the other online Microsoft apps/services I tested with the Chrome browser. I think that the same would be true of all of the Chromium-based browsers. I understand from Microsoft documentation that there are compatibility issues between some Microsoft online apps/services (e.g. limited Microsoft Teams capabilities in Safari and Firefox) but on the whole, all of the mainstream Chromium-based browsers will work with Microsoft online products.

I think that it works the other way around, too, at least for the most part. When I was testing ChromeOS Flex, I found that spreadsheets used to track volunteers in the Sauk County GOTV effort during the 2012 combined Democratic campaign were still in my Google Docs folders, as well a couple of calendars and other detrius, and I could access and work with this afternoon using Kubuntu and Edge.

brent Never saw it as google-exclusive

I think that the intent of Chromebooks is to allow users seamless access to Google online apps/services. So while not "exclusive" to Google, Chromebooks were designed and deployed to provide inexpensive and seamless compatibility with Google online apps/services, that is the reason why Chromebooks were developed. Chromebooks clicked along just fine with only the Chrome browser and embedded Google apps from 2011 to 2018, when Android integration was built into Chromebooks.

I've never given Chromebooks much thought, but seeing how quick ChromeOS Flex is in comparison to Kubuntu, as well as my Chromebook friend's glowing reports on his Chromebook, has prompted me to give Chromebooks a look. With Android support, it would be a snap to install Edge, MS Mail/Calendar and all the other apps I use on my iOS phone, and Chromebooks might be a workable environment.

The only firm conclusion I've reached is that ChromeOS Flex on a Windows laptop is useless to me, because ChromeOS Flex doesn't support Android apps installation through the Play Store.

Reading between the lines, it sounds like you might have used a Chromebook at some point. Is that right?

brent

tomscharbach Nah, not a laptop guy at all or a cloud guy. I still pay some bills with a stamp and envelope🙂. But enough of the cool kids have shown me what it's all about and I had to pinch hit with a chromebook in the 365 environment all related to work. Connected with colleagues in Slack with the Chromebook. I felt all modern and stuff. For employment related it was cool. You are no longer using desktop app packages...except Chrome.
It's a conscious decision to forgo a hard drive or disk backups and operate completely autonomous of your hardware [save it being the platform for your journey] without the tradtional way of doing things. In some ways I find that very liberating...in other ways I have trust issues.
I really dig the Linux 'Chromebook' in concept. I may spend more time with it.
Thanks for the detailed description of proper vs. flex. Do you really think a chromebook would let you install Edge on it? I see all the chrome-store wrassling in this thread.

tomscharbach

brent Do you really think a chromebook would let you install Edge on it?

Absolutely. Edge and most of the other core Microsoft apps are in the Play Store, and should install without any problems on a modern (post-2018) Chromebook. I use Edge on my Android devices. If Android is any indication, though, I would not be able to uninstall Chrome or other core Google apps. I also have questions about how Edge Android would work on a laptop screen rather than a tablet screen, although the Play Store photos look like it would be okay.

I'd like to see ChromeOS Flex open up to Android -- that's its basic flaw -- but I don't think that is going to happen. I think that Google developed ChromeOS Flex to sell Chromebooks by allowing schools and businesses to migrate to Chromebooks while keeping inventory costs under control by repurposing Windows and macOS laptops during the transition.

brent

tomscharbach i ubmit to you a big D'oh! Forgot all about Playstore. Very nice.

tomscharbach I think that Google developed ChromeOS Flex to sell Chromebooks by allowing schools and businesses to migrate to Chromebooks while keeping inventory costs under control by repurposing Windows and macOS laptops during the transition.

I think that's a great strategy and if I had to guess its going brilliant for them althought I don't know the $ return on repurposed. At the collegiate level these repurposed dell and hp laptops are just chromebooks for classrooms (that leech right into Canvas/Blackboard [basic school software] but serving the underserved/underrepresented populations is where the demand surges. It only pushes them to buy new CB's with their financial aid money since it's a tool these students know. I know how this works in the EDU industry for Alphabet...but no clue how that works in other industries.
**I remember you had a great post a while back about being part of repurposed laptops going to the under-served communities and I'm on the periperal of that

***@WetGeek sorry for yet another digression on your thread! PS---thinstation is modeled on Win98 with linux underneath so its emphasis is light with a verrrry dated look. but that thing is far beyond chromebook into nether worlds of development..watching the youtube with the dev (named Cupp) it's basically a server that needs to be run in VM to do remote server-y stuff (go with it) with others. this might be closer to the 'thin client' Tom talked about earlier. Its very much an administrator distro. I am officially passing on reviewing it. @Axios 's ubuntudde is my next fun..another time

WetGeek

brent sorry for yet another digression on your thread

I keep pointing out that it's not my thread. I enjoy everyone's participation here. And I'm looking forward to your review of Ubuntudde. I'd never heard of it, and it's got me curious.

tomscharbach

brent I think that's a great strategy and if I had to guess its going brilliant for them althought I don't know the $ return on repurposed.

Although I assume (don't know) that Google charges OEM's for the use of ChromeOS on Chromebooks, which, if so, provides a small but steady income stream to Google from Chromebook sales in both the consumer and education/business markets, the ROI from that income stream is nominal. You would be astounded, I think, to learn how little Microsoft charges major OEM's for Windows OEM (that is, device specific) licenses. If Google charges OEM's for use of ChromeOS on Chromebooks, I assume that whatever Google charges for the license would be next to nothing.

The primary ROI from the education/business market comes from the ongoing income stream provided by sales of Google Admin, paid support, and other Google products/services for managing deployed ChromeOS and ChromeOS Flex devices and providing the background infrastructure in which ChromeOS and ChromeOS Flex devices are used in an education/business setting, including GoogleCloud services. I'm not 100% sure about this, but I think that the ROI from that income stream would be identical for either ChromeOS or ChromeOS Flex.

I'm reasonably familiar with the Chromebook education market, so let me make an observation about the education market, using a small (that is, about 1,500 students spread between primary, middle and high school) rural school district.

Education Chromebooks aren't cheap -- the base Dell 3110 model for the education market runs $379 -- because education Chromebooks need to be kid-proof. Hand a kid a $200 consumer Chromebook from Best Buy and it will last two weeks. Penny-wise, pound-foolish as the old saying goes.

Assuming a Chromebook price of $350 and 1,500 students, the cost of Chromebooks would be $525,000 for our imaginary rural school district. That's a big pill to swallow for school district of that size. Spread that cost over five years, however, by repurposing existing Windows devices using ChromeOS Flex, then equipment cost ($100,000 per year) becomes more manageable, probably not much different than normal annual replacement costs. The same considerations would apply to larger school districts and enterprise businesses, but at a larger scale.

That's what I think Google is doing by targeting ChromeOS Flex to the education and business markets. Consumer downloads of ChromeOS Flex are peripheral, more annoyance than anything else, and Google seems to be intentionally crippling that market by refusing to allow ChromeOS Flex access to the Play Store.

WetGeek

brent ubuntudde is my next fun..another time

How's that going for you? It's been described as a beautifull DDE.

stalebrim

WetGeek Reminds me of Ubuntu Kylin, which comes with it's own UKUI (Ubuntu Kylin User Interface) DE. It's meant for Chinese users, but I think it has the same language options as any other Ubuntu.

Re: Chromebooks, GalliumOS is an Ubuntu derivative tailored for Chromebook devices.

brent

tomscharbach Brilliant summation in every way and my guess would be 379+ per laptop. This explains everything but Dell's (or HP's) role. Is there a profit for them? Or are thye just the used repurposed donor bodies for the chromebooks? certainly there would have to be some uniformity (maintenance) if one school board is buying fleet, as it were

brent

stalebrim Ubunti DDE is a marriage of Ubu and Deepin. I went to look at Deepin last night. This, also, is entirely written in Chinese, all of its documentation and downloads page (all other lit I saw; not comprehensive),
WetGeek that may explain why no reviews here! haven't explored the iso yet so hopefully the Ubu part will be in Eng

WetGeek

brent hopefully the Ubu part will be in Eng

The installer is Ubuntu. The first question is Language, and it defaults to American English.

tomscharbach

brent ... my guess would be 379+ per laptop.

Dell offers volume discounts, so my guess is that the price would be lower for a school buying several hundred Chromebooks at a time than the single-purchase retail of $379. My $350 was just a guess. I doubt that Dell discounts too deeply, though, because margins in the laptop market are razor-thin.

brent This explains everything but Dell's (or HP's) role. Is there a profit for them?

Latitude education laptops (both Chromebook and Windows) are the core OEM profit center. Dell also sells accessories, multi-unit storage/charging racks (see photo below from the Dell Education website), administration, maintenance, and upkeep/tracking software systems, consulting services, and other related hardware and services.

Photo Credit: Dell Technologies

School technology is a complex undertaking, both in financial terms and in terms of planning, implementation and ongoing management. The three school districts we worked with (one at a time over several years, with some overlap) took about 6-12 months to make it from decision to implementation (typically phased, but that was pre-COVID), and the year-to-year work after implementation requires skill, resources and investment. Thinking back a decade, I'm really glad that our state's Department of Education got involved in school technology and made efforts like ours redundant. Education technology has moved beyond our skill set, almost certainly, in any event.

brent Of course, or Dell wouldn't be in the business.

Yup. Dell is making a profit from the education market. ROI is the bottom line for any business.

By the way, as an aside, I texted with a grandso, and the Chromebooks used in his school are locked down tight. The kids can't touch the system setup, add or remove any software, and so on, so the Play Store might as well be on Mars as far as they are concerned. I can see why the Play Store isn't needed in ChromeOS Flex.

« Previous Page Next Page »