elfprince Why 'force' Solus to work on brand new computers which would need brand new drivers etc.
Because, for example, not caring for new hardware means that whoever has a brand new pc (for whatever reason) cannot install Solus.
elfprince Who needs super speeds and super amount of RAM, really? Come on.
Gamers. And you cannot have a distro optimized for desktop use without the ability to support one of the main activities done with desktops.
CorvusRuber Because, for example, not caring for new hardware means that whoever has a brand new pc (for whatever reason) cannot install Solus.
Exactly. And for each year that goes by, there will be more and more new bikes as folks buy them, and fewer and fewer old bikes, as folks retire them. I'd like to see Solus keep ahead of the changes, not fall farther behind, which is where we obviously are right now.
If Solus doesn't do something to make things easier for users with new computers to install it, eventually Solus'll just fade away. That would break my heart.
I say: Let the dev team decide. They have eyes, ears. and brains. They also have their own ideas and plans. They also have their own life, school and work to deal with. Why don't you design another 'Solus', and then you can keep it updated any way you desire. Talk is cheap. 
WetGeek If Solus doesn't do something to make things easier for users with new computers to install it, eventually Solus'll just fade away. That would break my heart.
A quiet note: Solus is not the only distro with serious upstream issues keeping up with new hardware. Every disto that is dependent on the kernel for hardware drivers has trouble keeping up with new consumer-level computers.
The upstream issues exist because many/most hardware manufacturers do not make developing Linux drivers a priority (if they do it at all, which they don't, in many cases), kernel developers/maintainers do not make keeping kernel drivers for new hardware a priority, and the community does not do much of a job developing manufacturer-independent drivers for hardware.
The Linux driver situation is a mess. Taking a look at the most common issues I see on this and other (e.g. Ubuntu Budgie, Zorin OS, Ubuntu) forums, NVIDIA doesn't seem to be able to develop/maintain Linux drivers without tripping on its own shoelaces, AMD develops/deploys CPU/GPU drivers for the kernel at a snail's pace, and RealTek components almost never work properly without intervention. Meanwhile, the kernel developers/maintainers are in no rush to include drivers for new hardware into the kernel. When it comes to supporting new hardware, Linux always seems to be a day late and a dollar short.
This is nothing new. Linux driver issues have existed since I started using Linux 15-16 years ago, and nothing seems to change.
The bright spot in the picture seems to be Intel, which is reasonably good about keep Linux drivers current and up-to-date, but that bright spot doesn't exist in a vacuum. Intel is motivated to keep drivers for its components current because it has a strong financial incentive to do so. Intel powers most of the servers in use, the server market is a (perhaps the) market segment that is very profitable for Intel, and the server market is dominated by Linux. It is no surprise, accordingly, that Intel does a good job of keeping its drivers current, and is (I think) the largest code contributor to the kernel.
I have a rule of thumb: It is Intel, it will almost certainly work in Linux. If it is not Intel, it is a crapshoot. That's why all of my computers are Intel-only.
Like you, I'd like to see the Solus ISO kept more current (say, twice a year) than it now is, but unlike you, I don't think that would solve the driver issues. Help, but not solve. Like the crazy uncle nobody wants to invite for a holiday dinner, NVIDIA, AMD, RealTek and other Linux indifferent/incompetent component suppliers will always be with us, it seems. and kernel developers/maintainers will continue to focus on market segments where Linux dominates rather than the desktop market.
Personally, I'd like to see automatic ISO generation happening. Maybe once every three months. (I'm also volunteering to help test ISOs if this becomes the case)
Better, I'd like the tools to generate an ISO to be made available. I understand that there has been some controversy about this in the past due to some tricky legal situations some bad actors got us into, but I also struggle with the lack of transparency in the current process. I'd be glad to build an updated ISO myself if I had the tools. In fact, I tried to when a friend couldn't install Solus. I think he's on Pop!_OS now.
CorvusRuber Ah, but gamers do not run the world. Everyday applications do. Every half-decent pc running Solus can handle applications. Games are just icing on the cake, ie not that necessary.
elfprince The problem isn't specifically gamers, either. It's anyone with a new computer. I don't know the statistics, but I'd bet that most of the people who have new computers and want to use Solus aren't gamers.
Not being able to install Solus on new systems harm's Solus's reputation. It's a rock solid distro with impressive stability, but that doesn't matter (from a marketing / mind share perspective) if you can only install it on sufficiently old hardware.
infinitymdm How many people purchase brand new computers every year? Not that many I believe. Many more are happy with 2-10 year old computers, as long as they run well.
elfprince How many people purchase brand new computers every year?
I've gotta ask it, "What difference does that make"? At any given time, there are folks with (relatively) new computers, and folks with (relatively) old computers. I want Solus to be able to install and run for BOTH of those owner groups, not just for folks with older computers.
And just to be clear, my computers are all older. I just don't want to see the folks with new hardware after the upcoming holicay season unable to use Solus.
tomscharbach A quiet note: Solus is not the only distro with serious upstream issues keeping up with new hardware. Every disto that is dependent on the kernel for hardware drivers has trouble keeping up with new consumer-level computers.
The upstream issues exist because many/most hardware manufacturers do not make developing Linux drivers a priority (if they do it at all, which they don't, in many cases), kernel developers/maintainers do not make keeping kernel drivers for new hardware a priority, and the community does not do much of a job developing manufacturer-independent drivers for hardware.
^^ this is def. something to be mindful about. hadn't considered this as a factor, but now I'm glad I have.
WetGeek This discussion is pretty pointless, imo. The devs team will do what they will do. Aggressive activism tends to only breed conflict. I am happy with where we are at, because Solus works well and is stable. That is all I want. People with new pcs will have to make their own choices. It is not for others to figure out.
One reason why I love Linux is because it is free, it runs well on old and newer hardware, and you have choices. That's all.
brent ^^ this is def. something to be mindful about. hadn't considered this as a factor, but now I'm glad I have.
Yes, and there is an additional issue that I'm not sure that I understand.
I've noticed over the years that Windows installs "generic" drivers for components when a specific driver is not in the Windows installation ISO. For example, when I do a clean install, Windows will install a generic display adapter driver and a generic display driver, as well as generic USB port drivers, on initial installation if component-specific drivers are not in the Windows ISO. Windows nags me to install proper drivers until I get around to it. The "generic" drivers are dumbed down and don't offer full functionality, but the installer doesn't end up with a blinking cursor and frozen installation, either. I've not had an installation fail with Linux (in part because I've used only Ubuntu and Solus and in part because my computers are vanilla Intel), but I'd be frustrated as hell if I got a blinking cursor when installing.
If the kernel developers/maintainers could be motivated to do something similar to what Windows does, it would help a lot. I'm not holding my breath, though, because the kernel is focused on business and server computers, not ordinary desktop users.
tomscharbach That is an interesting piece of info. Can be something to consider.
elfprince That is an interesting piece of info. Can be something to consider.
As I said, though, "I'm not sure that I understand."
Providing "generic" drivers for installing hardware components seems to be a no-brainer, but perhaps there is something in the way the Linux kernel is architected that doesn't allow "fuzzy" drivers in the way that the NT kernel does. I don't know, but I've noticed that Windows seems to be relatively forgiving when it comes to drivers for hardware components during installation, and Linux seems to be remarkably rigid about needing the exact driver.
WetGeek I just don't want to see the folks with new hardware after the upcoming holiday season unable to use Solus.
Yeah. But I think that we have to face the fact that folks with the newest hardware, particularly hardware that is consumer-specific like NVIDIA cards, are going to have issues, and not just with Solus.
tomscharbach I've noticed that Windows seems to be relatively forgiving when it comes to drivers for hardware components during installation,
Windows is not FOSS. If they can't get their OS installed, they don't get paid for it. That's a simplification, of course, but they're highly incentivised to make sure their OS will install on any compjuter.
WetGeek Windows is not FOSS. If they can't get their OS installed, they don't get paid for it. That's a simplification, of course, but they're highly incentivised to make sure their OS will install on any compjuter.
Yup. You've just identified the problem. Developers/maintainers of the Linux kernel have little or no incentive to shape the kernel in the direction of consumer desktop computers or waste limited resources doing so. Microsoft, on the other hand, has enormous financial incentives to do whatever it takes to continue to dominate the consumer market.
The bulk of the kernel's code and financial support comes from companies focused on the server, cloud and Android markets. To the extent that Linux on the desktop is supported, the focus is on business/enterprise computers rather than consumer computers. The financial incentives are all on the side of shaping the kernel to run efficiently on servers and business/enterprise computers.
That's why you see high levels of support for all-Intel setups and lousy support for consumer outliers like NVIDIA, AMD and RealTek. It is a chicken and egg problem, in the sense that Linux has about 1-2% of the gaming market, for example, so NVIDIA has little incentive to dump resources into well-designed Linux drivers, but the Linux gaming market isn't going to grow unless and until NVIDIA does so. Everywhere I look at the Linux consumer desktop market, I see the story replayed over and over again.
Reading Linux boards over the years, I've been impressed with the strength of the idea that Linux is community-based, developed by and for altruistic FOSS believers. I think that's a myth, myself, and I think my observation is supported by the fact that Linux dominates the server, cloud and Android markets, where there is plenty of money being made by the companies developing for and profiting from those markets, and the fact that Linux doesn't seem to be able to get its act together in the consumer desktop market, where there is no money to be made.
tomscharbach You've just identified the problem.
The other part of the problem is that the Windows team has thousands of developers and testers, and can pretty easily create their own device drivers once the new device specs are released. If the OEMs come up with even better drivers eventually, those can be installed later, as you suggested. There's no Linux team that can compete with that.
Often, when I was working with Windows and checked on the availability of updated drivers, I was told that the Microsoft driver that was already installed was the best one available.
