SOLUSfiddler I agree with the main points of your comment. For people trying to get away from Windows it just doesn't make sense to run towards these new products which simply tangle them back up in the Microsoft walled gardens and data collection. You are I run Linux for the same reason.. privacy, security, and control over our devices.

However, playing the devil's advocate, I can think of a number of reasons why Linux users would want to install the Edge Browser.

Some people just like browsers. There was a time when I had every browser under the sun. Remember Torch? What a cool concept! Yandex is still one of the best browsing experiences I have had to date. What about Waterfox? Pale Moon? Sea Monkey? Epiphany? Maxthon? Epic? That doesn't even include Opera, Vivaldi, Konquerer, etc etc etc.

I wouldn't touch these browsers now if you paid me but some people just like tinkering.. which is what Linux is known for.

Also I believe that many, many of the "IT Professionals" everyone thinks of when they think of Linux do actually work in the Tech industry and many have Microsoft and Windows certifications which require them to at least run Windows 10 which has Edge pre-installed. Some might need/want Edge for professional use cases.

There have even been several posts across the internet where I have seen people say that they wanted Edge as a way to keep all of the Microsoft/Windows based services under one piece of software so they would be able to stop mixing MSN and Hotmail and Outlook emails, Office, and Azure with their day-to-day browser.

One final reason that springs to mind as a reason to install the Edge Browser is those who are actively encouraging the open-sourcing of Windows and Microsoft products by making them available on Linux platforms. Many people (and I may be wrong but I would consider many Ubuntu users specifically) may be interested in running Edge because they genuinely want to test, develop, and give feedback to try and encourage Microsoft to tilt further towards open-source models.

When someone asks people like you and I, @SOLUSfiddler, why we run Linux the answer is 'to get away from Microsoft, and Google, and Big Tech, and Government Surveillance.'

But Linux is not an OS platform, it is a community of people.

Why do they run Linux?

Because they can.

Sadly many people may not yet truly understand the profound problems that arise from existing within Big Tech Walled Gardens. This is only my opinion but I feel it is moments such as these that create opportunities to begin a dialogue with those people on why running a browser like Edge is -not- in their best interests but also effectively communicating how using a proprietary piece of software like Edge can actually be a way to end the use of that same software.

Richard Stallman, Founder of Gnu Project, explained this much better than me in his article "Is It Ever a Good Thing to Use a Non-Free Program?"

      SOLUSfiddler

      I was just going to link the article in my previous comment but I actually think that this aspect of Gnu Philosophy is under discussed and deserves more attention and debate among Linux users.

      "Is It Ever a Good Thing to Use a Nonfree Program?"
      by Richard Stallman

      The question here is, is it ever a good thing to use a nonfree program? Our conclusion is that it is usually a bad thing, harmful to yourself and in some cases to others.

      If you run a nonfree program on your computer, it denies your freedom; the immediate wrong is directed at you.(*)

      That does not mean you're an “evildoer” or “sinner” for running a nonfree program. When the harm you're doing is mainly to yourself, we hope you will stop, for your own sake.

      Sometimes you may face great pressure to run a nonfree program; we don't say you must defy that pressure at all costs (though it is inspiring when someone does that), but we do urge you to look for occasions to where you can refuse, even in small ways.

      If you recommend that others run the nonfree program, or lead them to do so, you're leading them to give up their freedom. Thus, we have a responsibility not to lead or encourage others to run nonfree software. Where the program uses a secret protocol for communication, as in the case of Skype, your own use of it pressures others to use it too, so it is especially important to avoid any use of these programs.

      But there is one special case where using some nonfree software, and even urging others to use it, can be a positive thing. That's when the use of the nonfree software aims directly at putting an end to the use of that very same nonfree software.

      In the past

      In 1983 I decided to develop the GNU operating system, as a free replacement for Unix. The feasible way to do it was to write and test the components one by one on Unix. But was it legitimate to use Unix for this? And was it legitimate to ask others to use Unix for this, given that Unix was proprietary software? (Of course, if it had not been proprietary, it would not have required replacing.)

      The conclusion I reached was that using Unix to put an end to the use of Unix was legitimate for me to suggest to other developers. I likened it to participating in small ways in some evil activity, such as a criminal gang or a dishonest political campaign, in order to expose it and shut it down. While participating in the activity is wrong in itself, shutting it down excuses minor peripheral participation, comparable to merely using Unix. This argument would not justify being a ringleader, but I was only considering using Unix, not going to work for its development team.

      The job of replacing Unix was completed when the last essential component was replaced by Linux, the kernel started by Linus Torvalds in 1991. We still add to the GNU/Linux system, but that doesn't require using Unix, so it isn't a reason for using Unix—not any more. Thus, whenever you're using a nonfree program for this sort of reason, you should reconsider from time to time whether the need still exists.
      Nowadays

      However, there are other nonfree programs we still need to replace, and the analogous question often arises. Should you run the nonfree driver for a peripheral to help you develop a free replacement driver? (More precisely, is it ethical for us to suggest that you do so?) Yes, by all means. Is it ok to run the nonfree JavaScript on a web site in order to file complaint asking the webmasters to free that JavaScript code, or make the site work without it? Definitely—but other than that, you should have LibreJS block it for you.

      But this justification won't stretch any further. People that develop nonfree software, even software with malicious functionalities, often try to excuse this on the grounds that they fund some development of free software. However, a business that is basically wrong can't be legitimized by spending some of the profits on a worthy cause. For instance, some (not all) of the activities of the Gates Foundation are laudable, but they don't excuse Bill Gates's career, or Microsoft. If the business works directly against the worthy cause it tries to legitimize itself with, that is a self-contradiction and it undermines the cause.

      Even using a nonfree program to develop free software in general is better to avoid, and not suggest to others. For instance, we should not ask people to run Windows or MacOS in order to make free applications run on them. As developer of Emacs and GCC, I accepted changes to make them support nonfree systems such as VMS, Windows and MacOS. I had no reason to reject that code, even though people had run nonfree systems to write it. Their use of unjust systems was not at my request or suggestion; rather, they were already using them before starting to write changes for GNU. They also did the packaging of releases for those systems.

      The “developing its own replacement” exception is valid within its limits, and crucial for the progress of free software, but we must resist stretching it any further lest it turn into an all-purpose excuse for any profitable activity with nonfree software.
      Author's note

      Occasionally it is necessary to use and even upgrade a nonfree system on a machine in order to install a free system to replace it on that machine. This is not exactly the same issue, but the same arguments apply: it is legitimate to recommend running some nonfree software momentarily in order to remove it.

          jrsilvey When I need a cold cup of coffee I read Stallman----his single-mindedness is not stubborn to me at all, it's refreshing. Thanks for sharing it.

          jrsilvey When someone asks people like you and I, @SOLUSfiddler, why we run Linux the answer is 'to get away from Microsoft, and Google, and Big Tech, and Government Surveillance.'

          I'm cynical enough to balk some here. Google and amazon are baked into nearly every web page even if you don't use their services. Linux and browser-hardening might barely keep #1 #2 & #3 at arm's length but I'm not putting any money on it---at least not in internet land.

          Linux to me is 1) I don't feel like my OS is undermining me and sabotaging me. I felt like that for decades...and 2) it's a healthier community despite its splinters and 3) overall not as vulnerable as the win/mac duopoly.

          It's amazing how many points of view there are about a batch of ones and zeros---that Matrix child was absolutely on the on the money when explaining to Neo about the spoon..

                brent

                jrsilvey jrsilvey When I need a cold cup of coffee I read Stallman----his single-mindedness is not stubborn to me at all, it's refreshing. Thanks for sharing it.

                You're welcome. I apologize if Stallman is boring to you but his writing is incredibly important to the entire open-source movement.

                However it seems you completely missed the entire point of my comment so I would like to add that context back into the conversation.

                When someone asks people like you and I, @SOLUSfiddler, why we run Linux the answer MIGHT BE 'to get away from Microsoft, and Google, and Big Tech, and Government Surveillance.'

                But Linux is not an OS platform, it is a community of people.

                Why do they run Linux?

                Because they can.

                Linux users run Linux for whatever reason they want to.

                If I wanted to be invisible on the internet I could be. The thing is that I don't feel like going to all of the work to do that all of the time. I am not trying to go 'off-grid' or hide or any of that. Also notice that I changed the IS to MIGHT BE in the quote above since the semantics of all of this seems to be important to you.

                I personally am using Linux to regain control over my computing experience. When the Solus 4 ISO came out in March of 2019 my life changed. For the first time I was living a life without any devices running Windows and suddenly I could breathe. There were no more monthly/weekly/daily zero-day vulnerabilities, no forced updates that took up hours of my time, no more telemetry I couldn't shut off, no more loss of control.

                Do I still have an Outlook account that I access through Webmail? Sure, even though I don't use it much anymore.

                Do I have Edge installed on my computer bringing telemetry or data collection or whatever else it might come with? Nope.

                brent I'm cynical enough to balk some here.

                Let me stop you there. You are cynical. Like, extremely cynical. But it is something that has become quite common among much of modern society. There is a concept known as "The Politics of Cynicism" and it has been used increasingly around the globe to influence populations over the last few decades.

                It doesn't much matter to me what specifically has made you feel this way but the sharing of information can lead to paradigm shifts in understanding. That article I shared with you above, in my opinion, is a good one on this topic.

                Google and amazon are baked into nearly every web page even if you don't use their services. Linux and browser-hardening might barely keep #1 #2 & #3 at arm's length but I'm not putting any money on it---at least not in internet land.

                I have a degree in computer science but I don't code or work directly in tech. I am working to create change in the tech industry as an activist and political organizer. Prior to 2021 much of my efforts were focused on Congressional investigations (I lobbied for and was directly responsible for that Congressional hearing happening) into the private equity firms that own and operate our very, very hackable voting machine infrastructure. That link leads to HBO's documentary KillChain and includes a great deal of screen time devoted to Harri Hursti who is a well known computer programmer who has developed traffic analysis tools for F-secure and has received an EFF Pioneer Award.

                This year much of my focus as an activist and political organizer has shifted towards pushing for large antitrust reforms among Big Tech and lobbying members of Congress to try to pass legislation that would expand the use of Linux-based software and operating systems in elementary & high schools and institutions of higher education through tax incentives to run open-source software.

                Running Linux won't make Facebook or Microsoft or Apple any less intrusive. I get that.

                But having quarterly conference calls with Representative Ro Khanna, whose constituency includes Silicon Valley, might make a difference. So I do that instead of worrying about whether or not using an Outlook webmail account makes me a bad person or if not using it is just a waste of time.

                Linux to me is 1) I don't feel like my OS is undermining me and sabotaging me. I felt like that for decades...and 2) it's a healthier community despite its splinters and 3) overall not as vulnerable as the win/mac duopoly.

                It's amazing how many points of view there are about a batch of ones and zeros---that Matrix child was absolutely on the on the money when explaining to Neo about the spoon..

                It looks like we agree here. Solus just works. I'm grateful for a distro this clean and stable and powerful. It has made a huge difference in my life. I hope Linux and Solus do the same for you, @brent

                        PS: Another great thing about this community - the civility of this exchange that went beyond the superfluous or pre-packaged arguments.

                        PPS: I am 100% linux at home but confess to using some MS products (e.g. TEAMS via flatpak) as my work environment, like most, is 100% wedded to the MS paradigm.

                        PPPS <smile>: I give MS credit under current leadership for their Linux overtures and MS being much more user friendly then the days of XP. I still like unchaining myself from the ecosystem although I am starting to think apple is a worse offender - the rest of my family members are apple fanboys. My home is a bunch of Macs and indie linux systems (e.g. ZaReason, System76)

                        Finally, edge is fine...but Vivaldi offers so much more if you want a complete online browsing ecosystem and it is FAST!

                          jppelt Finally, edge is fine...but Vivaldi offers so much more if you want a complete online browsing ecosystem and it is FAST!

                          Indeed. As I've mentioned in this forum before, I even prefer Vivaldi to Edge on my computers that sometimes run Windows 10. I suspect that linux users' infatuation with Edge will be a short-lived one. It's new, interesting, and hard to get, but that won't last forever.

                              brent The cold cup of coffee really threw me for a loop. Hah. I must have missed the mark there.

                                  WetGeek

                                  I've talked with Von Tetzchner and some of the staff at Vivaldi. I really think Jon is immensely underrated. Not only did he give us Vivaldi but he built Opera as well. Vivaldi was established as the direct desire to change the direction that Opera ended up going to.

                                  At the end of last year I became a brand Ambassador for the browser. I really believe in the mission and values of the company. Jon is giving up a huge amount of profit by focusing on keeping the Vivaldi company one owned by the employees.

                                  They have an excellent community as well. Their forums are extremely busy and well-moderated. Also if you sign up for a Vivaldi webmail account it comes with your own blog. The blogs made by the Vivaldi Community members are what some of what make up the Vivaldi.net homepage. It is powered by Wordpress and is a nice and simple alternative to paying for hosting if anyone wants to start a small personal blog

                                      jrsilvey I throw myself for a loop all the time regarding communication this last year. maybe i missed the mark as well! 🙂
                                      EDIT: jrsilvey I've loved reading RMS in the past regarding foss philosophy, but I want retract my full love status and Walk it Back. I was made aware today of '03 and '06 blog statements he made concerning a taboo subject that I cannot reconcile with myself. While I respect his pioneering work I no longer stand by my fanhood.

                                      I was out of the loop on that one.

                                          WetGeek

                                          WetGeek As I've mentioned in this forum before, I even prefer Vivaldi to Edge on my computers that sometimes run Windows 10. I suspect that linux users' infatuation with Edge will be a short-lived one. It's new, interesting, and hard to get, but that won't last forever.

                                          I think you are right. The blinking-lights crowd will play with Edge and lose interest. It is a good browser but not materially better than Firefox and other Linux-available multi-platform browsers. The users who want to avoid the Microsoft ecosystem won't use Edge at all, just as users who want to avoid the Google ecosystem won't use Chrome. The folks who will use Edge are OS-ambidextrous users who have one foot in Windows and the other in Linux, particularly employees of businesses that are standardized on Edge. That's not a large number of users.

                                          Vivaldi is a superb browser, but I can't use it because it isn't available on iOS. I don't need to use a browser to access the internet on my iPhone very often, but when I do, it is because I need to access the internet right then and right there. I understand the technical reason why Vivaldi elects not to support iOS, but that doesn't change things.

                                                tomscharbach

                                                The fact that Vivaldi isn't on iOS is because Apple has a requirement that any browser in the iOS App Store run on the Webkit platform. Releasing an iOS version of Vivaldi would require an entire rewrite of the browser and that is the only thing preventing it from being added.

                                                I would love to point out that Vivaldi is available on Mac OS and is being released on the new ARM based M1 Apple computers. This is a fairly new thing you might not have heard!

                                                It is a shame too.. Vivaldi on Android is brilliant. I did not have any faith that the features available on the desktop would ever make it to a mobile platform but I was wrong.. Sync brings over all your Notes, synced tabs, Bookmarks, etc. The Vivaldi Notes feature alone has completely replaced OneNote for me. The Screenshot feature is freaking awesome! (Although I hate to admit this that I use the Budgie Screenshot App for everything.. it is superior to Vivaldi's Screenshot app -- but only because Budgie works outside of the browser!)

                                                I know this doesn't fix anything but maybe at least it helped you use the browser on another platform you have access too!

                                                    jrsilvey

                                                    jrsilvey The fact that Vivaldi isn't on iOS is because Apple has a requirement that any browser in the iOS App Store run on the Webkit platform. Releasing an iOS version of Vivaldi would require an entire rewrite of the browser and that is the only thing preventing it from being added.

                                                    As I said, I understand the technical reasons**, and I accept Vivaldi's decision that the work required to make Vivaldi available on iOS is not justifiable on a cost/benefit basis, given the iPhone's relatively small (15% or thereabouts) market share. But that decision takes Vivaldi out of the running for me.

                                                    jrsilvey I know this doesn't fix anything but maybe at least it helped you use the browser on another platform you have access too!

                                                    But why? As you understand from my earlier comments, I base technology decisions on functionality and practicality. Vivaldi is an excellent browser, but it isn't enough better than Edge or Firefox to entice me to ignore a threshold requirement, which is that the browser sync bookmarks/favorites across all the platforms (Android, iOS, Linux and Windows) that I use daily. Absent a compelling reason to do so, it is neither functional nor practical for me to regress a decade to the days when I manually kept browsers in sync across platforms. Any benefit I'd gain from Vivaldi would be outweighed by the cost of manual syncing.

                                                    =================

                                                    ** Because the browser engine would change from Blink to Webkit, Vivaldi would have to rework the UI and external control elements of the browser to adapt them to the Webkit engine.

                                                          jrsilvey The Screenshot feature is freaking awesome! (Although I hate to admit this that I use the Budgie Screenshot App for everything.. it is superior to Vivaldi's Screenshot app -- but only because Budgie works outside of the browser!)

                                                          I don't use Vivaldi Screenshot tool. I wish the Budgie Screenshot had more features, like annotate image before upload, gif support, etc...

                                                            4 months later

                                                            Will Edge allow us to view vudu.com content? Currently their DRM restricts Linux users for all browsers I've tried. I've even tried agent spoofing and they still see I'm using Linux somehow and block content. This is the only streaming site I have issues with. Supposedly Edge was supposed to fix this. Really don't want to install an MS product at all unless I know it's going to work🙂

                                                            Thank you!

                                                              zmaint Will Edge allow us to view vudu.com content?

                                                              The last I heard vudu for Linux relies on Flash. Microsoft Edge (as is the case with most mainstream browsers) no longer supports Flash. So probably not.

                                                                  5 days later

                                                                  tomscharbach I'm honestlynot sure what they're using. Something changed in March 2019 right before they sold to Fandango. Prior to that, worked fine no issues. Now all I can see are the ads, but the video just says playback not supported. I've tried Brave, Firefox, Chrome, Chromium, and Vivaldi, all same issue. Even with spoofing it still gives same error.

                                                                      zmaint Now all I can see are the ads, but the video just says playback not supported.

                                                                      I went to the boards for a few minutes this morning, and discovered that is issue is the topic of quite a number of discussions. Reading the boards, the issue seems to go beyond Linux (Windows users seem to be having the same issue), so my thought about Flash was probably a dumb thought. The boards put forth any number of possible explanations, but all of them seem to be speculation. I have no idea. Whatever is going on, it doesn't seem to affect Roku. It seems beyond stupid that Vudu would abandon the browser audience, but that seems to be what has happened.

                                                                          tomscharbach Thanks for going the extra mile🙂 I've opened dozens of service tickets with them since it changed, and also with Fandango, and their usual response is to just use Windows. Which is not helpful and not an option lol (If only more people actually read the EULA...). If I figure anything out I'll share here.