JoshStrobl

Sure, I get that. All I'm saying is that there could be an option while installing (that is clearly marked and explained via tooltip) that a minimal install is possible.

Sane defaults and a well selected suite of apps is a good thing, but I mean some people don't want to install Solus and then uninstall apps for 30 minutes and install what they want for another 30.

I guess, there's Arch for that sort of thing or Gentoo. It's just a thought.

    On the counter, it's not hard to see what you have installed (and/or dump from eopkg), and a little shell scripting (or hand-editing) and you can easily remove what you don't need.
    The 'is it worth it', would be is creating and maintaining the feature a worthwhile time of the developers...and that would depend on how many people feel this way probably.

      dbarron

      True. I woudn't have a problem of removing software, but eopkg does not remove all of the dependencies from a lot of software packages.

      The "eopkg remove orphans" command suggests removing AppArmor for example, which is clearly needed.

        Hopefully the rewrite of the package manager will add that feature (frankly I kinda miss it too). However, the eopkg history does show you everything installed, so you can remove it all (but yes that IS manual effort).

        A lot of people are and will be switching to Linux from Windows 10 or from Windows 7 when 7's support ends. They are switching mainly for 3 reasons - clunky UI, Microsoft spyware and lack of control - updates install when they want, Candy Crush get's downloaded on its own and so on.

        And here Solus could make a powerful statement - "we provide a well selected suite of apps for you to use and have a workflow ready in minutes, but if you want, you can install whatever you want on a clean slate. You're in control, unlike with Windows 10 or even OSX"

          I don't know if this hypothesis is correct. But I can see a resolution here. People that don't know what they're doing would be best served having common software installed (I think). Otherwise, without basic application suites, they mistakenly assume that's all there is...and it won't do.
          People that do know what they're doing can pretty easily do whatever they want. Ie, they can uninstall stuff (though depending upon their initial cluefulness, they may break their installation badly in the process).
          Am I missing something? Solus install is pretty basic and not overly loaded with fluff anyway (imo). I usually have to add only about 5 packages to get pretty much everything I immediately require (though obviously, I keep adding stuff as something comes up). I was thinking yesterday that I needed a disk upgrade (lol). Or maybe I just decrease my windows install and give Solus more of it.
          In these days, disk space is cheap and it's better to have more apps I think.

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          • Post #12

          I don't get the hype with minimal installs. It won't slow your machine down whether it has LibreOffice or not.

            [deleted] Linux is about choice, control and transparency. Sure, having LibreOffice will not slow anyone down. But removing it and then hunting down and removing dependencies and then installing another office suite does slow down the deployment.

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                • Post #14

                XerXes And Solus is about home computing and providing sane ootb experience. I can't even remember how much time I spent on "deploying" my home desktop that I had to install only once about two years ago

                    But how many times are you going to 'deploy'? Once or twice I would think.

                    [deleted] That's not the point and I don't look at it from my perspective alone.

                    People are moving to Solus from other distros or Windows, because it has a certain good reputation. And that reputation could be improved by having a base minimal install.

                    I can give you an example:

                    1. User is moving from Windows 10.
                    2. He doesn't want Firefox or Thunderbird or Gnome MPV or Rhythmbox or Libreoffice and many other things
                    3. He wants Chrome/Opera, Kodi, Geary, and many other things.
                    4. Updating the system is pointless after installing, because he will only be smashing Solus servers, wasting bandwidth and time updating software he doesn't need.
                    5. So first he has to remove stuff he doesn't like, which will waste time, he will then want to remove dependencies, which will waste time even more and he could potentially brick the system while doing it.
                    6. Then he installs software he needs.
                    7. Update the rest of the system
                    8. ???
                    9. PROFIT!

                    Instead of:

                    1. Install base system
                    2. Immediately upgrade to newest packages
                    3. Install only the software he likes/needs
                    4. All set in 10 minutes as opposed to 40.
                    5. Reputation of Solus as both casual and advanced user friendly distro is increased.
                    6. Ubuntu provides minimal install. Is Solus worse than Ubuntu? 😃 JK

                      Well for one, there are FAR more maintainers on the Ubuntu side, Solus is a small distro. Ubuntu also has corporate backing, ie getting paid for doing job.

                        I actually like this idea, to have a choice in the installer, just to untick a tickbox or something, and you will only get the bare minimum.

                        I would love it.

                        To uninstall a lot of stuff (as I always have to do) right after a "clean" install is not a good experience for people who want to decide themselves.

                        dbarron I can't say for sure, but "blacklisting" applications from installing and then maintaining said "blacklist" in future releases should not be all that hard.

                        I mean Solus already maintains Budgie, Mate, Gnome and plans to maintain Plasma too.

                        When I said to Ikey - "core Solus team should maintain only Budgie and let other DE's be respins maintained by the community, he said - it's. not that big of an issue to maintain other DE's"

                        Another thing is - there's this thing called Windows 10 LTSC. It doesn't have most if the MS BS pre-installed. No Cortana, no Edge, no Windows Store and the like. You can postpone updates and many other things that were considered normal and "how things should be"

                        I can assure you, users would buy this version like hot cakes if they could, but they can't, cos it's Enterprise only.

                        Many users want a clean OS that they control and it's setup the way they like as fast as possible.

                        Now Solus defaults are very good and I'm sure a lot of people will say "hey, this us good enough for me, that's all I use anyway" and it's fine, 2 thumbs up for Solus team. I'm just saying that if a minimal install feature is not that hard to implement and maintain - it would be a good thing to have. That's all. Solus devs are gonba do what they gonna do anyway, no matter what I say.

                            No, just that it's one more thing (and you know that the last straw can break the camel's back?). I agree not a big thing, but a lot of little things add up to mountains.

                              dbarron in my line of work, I also say "No" more often than "Yes", because I know how quickly the "Yes'es" add up.

                              I made my case and defended it. It's up to the team to consider it. And if no is no, I'm fine with it.

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                                • Post #22
                                • Edited

                                Well, I think Josh just stated it the best. I don't think an user transitioning from Windows 10 would mind the existence of Geary or Rhythmbox.

                                JoshStrobl

                                Our target is not the same people that would want to customize the hell our of their system, build loads of packages from scratch just because they can, have minimal installs, etc. Those people can install Arch or Gentoo. As I've mentioned before, our market is not the 1% that already uses Linux (or trying to woo a few percentage of that 1%), it's the 99% that does