Dell Latitude 7280 Display Issue

BuzzPCSOS

tomscharbach Well it looks like I spoke too soon. Six BIOS updates later and my screen flickers again ☹️
I have tried booting into a PE version of Windows (Bob's OMB) and a recent(ish) version of Mint and could get no flicker at all. Maybe it is a Solus gremlin after all.
I will try booting from Ubuntu Budgie tomorrow and will continue following your list of things to try.

tomscharbach

BuzzPCSOS I will try booting from Ubuntu Budgie tomorrow and will continue following your list of things to try.

A good place to start. It sure does sound like you've got a corrupted driver of some sort, despite the ten times I've said that it doesn't seem likely. The fact that doesn't fit the driver model is that you get the issue running a Live session. That shouldn't happen if the problem is caused by a corrupted driver in your Solus installation. That's the thing I don't get.

If you don't get it the flicker in Ubuntu Budgie, think about sticking with Ubuntu Budgie until the 4.4 ISO releases in a month or two, and then doing a clean installation of Solus from the new 4.4 ISO. It would probably be simpler to do that than try to chase down the current driver issue in Solus Budgie.

I tested UB 22.04 LTS for 3-4 months last Spring, and it is an excellent Budgie implementation. In the Welcome Center you will see a "Layouts" option. Select the "Traditional Budgie" layout, which is identical to Solus Budgie. My guess is that UB will work for you in the interim, although I think that Solus is a better OS Layer than Ubuntu.

BuzzPCSOS

tomscharbach Successfully ran the live Ubuntu Budgie and could not get the screen to flicker.
Display details for the Ubuntu Live environment were as follows.

Device-1: Intel HD Graphics 620 driver: i915 v: kernel
Device-2: Realtek Integrated Webcam_HD type: USB driver: uvcvideo
Display: x11 server: X.Org v: 1.21.1.3 driver: X: loaded: modesetting
unloaded: fbdev,vesa gpu: i915 resolution: 1366x768_60Hz
OpenGL: renderer: Mesa Intel HD Graphics 620 (KBL GT2) v: 4.6 Mesa 22.0.5

Display details for my Solus install are as follows.

Device-1: Intel HD Graphics 620 driver: i915 v: kernel
Device-2: Realtek Integrated Webcam_HD type: USB driver: uvcvideo
Display: x11 server: X.Org v: 1.20.14 with: Xwayland v: 22.1.7 driver: X:
loaded: modesetting unloaded: fbdev,vesa dri: iris gpu: i915
resolution: 1366x768_60Hz
API: OpenGL v: 4.6 Mesa 22.2.4 renderer: Mesa Intel HD Graphics 620 (KBL
GT2)
It all looked about right to me but someone might spot the glaring fault.
For the time being I will continue to run Solus because the inconvenience of changing over to another distro far outweighs the irritation factor of a screen that flickers slightly.
The immediate fix seems to be just move the mouse a tiny bit. I can certainly live with that until we are graced with Solus 4.4.
Thank you once again for your time and effort.

tomscharbach

BuzzPCSOS I see nothing glaring.

The display details for my Solus Plasma installation on a Dell Latitude 7390 (a close cousin to the 7280) are almost identical to your display details, allowing for the different screen resolution:

This is a line-by-line comparison:

7280: Device-1: Intel HD Graphics 620 driver: i915 v: kernel
7390: Device-1: Intel UHD Graphics 620 vendor: Dell driver: i915 v: kernel

7280: Device-2: Realtek Integrated Webcam_HD type: USB driver: uvcvideo
7390: Device-2: Realtek Integrated_Webcam_HD type: USB driver: uvcvideo

7280: Display: x11 server: X.Org v: 1.20.14 with: Xwayland v: 22.1.7 driver: X:
loaded: modesetting unloaded: fbdev,vesa dri: iris gpu: i915
resolution: 1366x768-60Hz
7390: Display: x11 server: X.Org v: 1.20.14 with: Xwayland v: 22.1.7 driver: X:
loaded: modesetting unloaded: fbdev,vesa dri: iris gpu: i915 resolution:
1920x1080-60Hz

7280: API: OpenGL v: 4.6 Mesa 22.2.4 renderer: Mesa Intel HD Graphics 620 (KBL
GT2)
7390: API: OpenGL v: 4.6 Mesa 22.2.4 renderer: Mesa Intel UHD Graphics 620 (KBL
GT2) direct render: Yes

I tried to see if I could replicate the screen flicker error that you are experiencing in Solus Plasma.

I can replicate it, although it takes a lot of work to get the mouse pointer to exactly the right spot, which seems to be (in my case) a very specific point on the X-Y axis. The point is on a horizontal line in the lower area of the screen, and about on third of the way (left and right) from the left side of the screen.

In the screenshot below, look at the second to last paragraph, beginning "The immediate fix ..." The point is located (left-right) between the "j" and "u" in "seems to be to just move the mouse", and (up-down) along a horizontal line just above the top of the "Solus 4.4" line.

I have no ideas. Since neither of us get the error with Windows or other distros like Ubuntu, and since you get the error in Budgie and I get the error in Plasma, the error seems to be specific to Solus but not specific to a particular DE.

I looked at the forum and did find a few threads related to screen flicker with UHD 520 and/or UHD 620 graphics, but nothing jumped out at me as a solution.

Maybe someone will come along.

BuzzPCSOS

tomscharbach Well at least I know that it is not just me! Thank you for your research. I guess you can see how I thought it was just random screen flicker for so long. Don't know how I worked out it was mouse pointer position dependant. Quite strange how often it happens though, probably a sign that I am getting too much screen time.
I test ran quite a few distros before I realised the flicker was position dependent, I think the 2021 version of Ubuntu Mate tended to flicker. I also have tried the Mate and Plasma versions of Solus with similar results. Back then I thought it was just a Linux driver glitch and decided to wait until some updates came along. Some tests in 2022 included Feren and Endeavour had promising results but were not entirely flicker free. I really prefer the way Solus Budgie works so it looks like my screen will continue to flicker for now.
As you found, trying to find the sour spot is quite difficult. It requires the mouse cursor to be over specific screen pixels and static for a moment or so. I use bifocal glasses so tend to use the bottom third of the screen when browsing or word processing which probably significantly increases the chances of my mouse being down in the wrong spot for the wrong length of time 😆
Finally a fun fact, my mouse pointer just randomly found the flashy spot and I pressed the Super button to see if I could start up system monitor and see if anything unusual was happening. On tapping the button all the flashing stopped until I tapped it again and made the start menu go away again. This behaviour was repeatable and I did it several times. Very odd. Probably voyaging into the realms of Voodoo Engineering here.
Keep up the good work.

tomscharbach

BuzzPCSOS I use bifocal glasses so tend to use the bottom third of the screen when browsing or word processing which probably significantly increases the chances of my mouse being down in the wrong spot for the wrong length of time.

Now that I'm aware of the issue, I realize in retrospect that I trigger the error once in a while when commenting on this forum. When I'm typing, my cursor is in the vicinity of the trigger spot.

Definitely Voodoo. Maybe I'll build a cardboard version of my 7390 and stick pins in it.

Thanks for all your patience.

BuzzPCSOS

tomscharbach

tomscharbach Definitely Voodoo. Maybe I'll build a cardboard version of my 7390 and stick pins in it.

Sounds like a plan to me 😄 😄

Axios

BuzzPCSOS Issues like what you are having In my experience have always been mouse or video
related. Video being the more common than mouse.
If you guys are using wireless mouse try using a wired mouse for testing if already using wired I would tend
to go video issues.
(Just info)

tomscharbach

Axios If you guys are using wireless mouse try using a wired mouse for testing ...

Thanks.

I unplugged the wireless mouse (Microsoft Wireless Mobile 3500) on the 7390, plugged in a basic Microsoft wired mouse and rebooted. As usual, cursor movement with the wired mouse (which is not optical) is sloppy and hard to control with any precision, but I can't replicate the issue.

I'm going to try a Bluetooth mouse next and see what happens.

Edit/Update: I can't replicate the issue with a Microsoft Bluetooth 3600 mouse, either. With Bluetooth, though, I seem to have traded one issue for another. With the Bluetooth mouse, I get random nano-second "flashes" (the screen seems to refresh), and every once in a while the screen "stutters" for a half-second for no apparent reason. Infrequent in both cases, but often enough to be noticeable. I'll use the Bluetooth mouse for the rest of the day and see if I get the "flicker" error at any point.

I wonder if we are talking about some kind of bus conflict issue on this particular series of Dell Latitudes. The 7280 and the 7390 are close cousins, identical in build/specs except that (1) the 7280 is 7th Gen iCore and the 7390 is 8th Gen, and (2) the 7280 display is 1366x768 while the 7390 is 1920x1080.

Very interesting.

Second Edit/Update: No dice on the Bluetooth mouse. It took me about an hour to see it, but I can replicated the "flicker" error with a Microsoft Bluetooth 3600 mouse, on this forum anyway, at exactly the X/Y access point that triggered the "flicker" with the Microsoft Wireless Mobile 3500 mouse. I'm thinking that the "stutter" I mentioned earlier might have been a brief occurrence of the "flicker", short term because I moved the mouse.

Axios

tomscharbach Must be mouse day just seen your other posts in another thread.
Back in the day when I was video editing mac was the go to but the cost so we had bright idea
edit on a pc Make a long story short we could not make videos without glitches period.
so we ended up with macs and finalcut.
Year or so later Hp issued a Keyboard driver update (one those media keyboards) it was constantly polling
usb or internet forget which.
So since I still had that machine I installed the new driver and viola edited videos on the pc without any glitches
Go figure. Thousands of dollars issue at the time!!
Anything polling ect usb ports or driver may be causing an issue prob not likely but something to keep in mind.

BuzzPCSOS

I run Solus Budgie on my 7280 with a Logitech Pebble mouse in Bluetooth mode so that I can also use it on another PC with the unifying adaptor. Two computers - one mouse. Also the 7280 only has two USB ports so the bluetooth is a boon.
Anyhow, because I did not want to reprogram my mouse, all the live environments (Ubuntu Budgie, Solus Plasma, Feren, Solus Budgie and many more) all get run on a wired USB mouse. Some get flicker and some didn't although it is sometimes difficult to reproduce the fault on demand but they all ran on a wired mouse.
During recent testing I ended up with a small tape arrow stuck to the screen indicating the hot spot. The technique made finding the glitch much easier when switching between operating systems 😆

tomscharbach

BuzzPCSOS During recent testing I ended up with a small tape arrow stuck to the screen indicating the hot spot. The technique made finding the glitch much easier when switching between operating systems

Tech at its best ... LOL!

Axios

BuzzPCSOS I am just curious does this happen with the trackpad to?
In budgie you can disable trackpad try that with mouse
Guess I am not totally sure what happens at this magic spot nothing,screen flicker, mouse pointer goes away?

tomscharbach

Axios Guess I am not totally sure what happens at this magic spot nothing,screen flicker, mouse pointer goes away?

In my case, I would describe what happens as something in the order of a "flicker" or "jitter" or "stutter" or "vibration", horizontal (left to right) rather than vertical, shaking back and forth and continuing until the mouse is moved off the X-Y point that triggers the behavior. The "jitter" is very pronounced and obvious. The moment the mouse no longer hovers over the X-Y point, the screen returns to normal.

I do not get "the taskbar appears to double in size" behavior that @BuzzPCSOS reported in the original post.

I'm away from the 7390 right now, but I will try to test the touchpad if an hour or two. I say "try" because I am horrible on a touchpad, so I might not be able to hit the precise X-Y point.

Edit/Update: Pffft! Edge began to go south on me this afternoon, opening and then closing after a minute or two. Edge is installed as a Flatpak. I uninstalled Edge (and everything else) using flatpak uninstall --all, the then reinstalled Edge. The behavior didn't change. I've got some work to do -- install Firefox as a temporary measure, so I can work the Flatpak Edge issue -- before I can test the touchpad, obviously. I hope I don't have to do a complete Solus rebuild. Anyway, tomorrow, at best, before I can test the touchpad. Sometimes Linux just makes me crazy.

BuzzPCSOS

Axios

Axios I am just curious does this happen with the trackpad to?

Thanks for your interest. Yes it happens with just the touchpad but it is harder to reproduce because it is harder to make small accurate movements with it.

Axios

BuzzPCSOS Back to basics i guess Since Dell certifies Ubuntu 16.04 for that machine
I would do one of the 2 below and see if you still have the issue
I cant answer the question if they are the same linux or if dell modifies there linux recovery image
I know its alot of trouble but would prob go the dell recovery route if it doesnt work there would tend to say hardware issue but we would expect theirs to work without issue.
Or just flip coin and try the Ubuntu 16.04 and see what happens.
Dell does not have any linux drivers listed so cross that off.
I think this test would tell what direction to go.
https://www.dell.com/support/home/en-us/drivers/osiso/linux
https://releases.ubuntu.com/16.04/

tomscharbach

@Axios @BuzzPCSOS I'm going to stay out of the discussion while you work together, but I would like to make two observations that might be of help:

(1) Dell provides drivers and other resources to the kernel. This screenshot is from my Dell Latitude 7390:

(2) I think we have reasonably solid evidence that the issue is Solus-specific. I keep a number of distros (including Solus Plasma and Solus Budgie) on external M.2 drives (each set up to be a full standalone installation including its own EFI so that I can use them on any computer). I tested several distros on the Dell Latitude 7390 this morning. I can replicate the issue on both Solus Budgie and Solus Plasma. I cannot replicate the issue on any of the non-Solus distros. As I understand it, that has been @BuzzPCSOS's experience as well.

BuzzPCSOS

Well I have been researching with my little tape arrow again 😄
Over time I have got myself a fair library of ISOs so I have tried running the Live environment for each to see if any others flickered. All named as per the downloaded ISO.
EndeavourOS_Artemis-22_6 - Solid
Feren-OS-standarddt - Solid
linux-lite-6.0-64bit - Flickers
linuxmint-21-cinnamon-64bit - Solid
MX-21.2.1_x64 - Solid
Solus-4.3-Budgie - Flickers
ubuntu-budgie-22.04.1-desktop-amd64 - Solid
Window PE - Solid

The only distro I could reproduce the flicker on other than Solus was Linux Lite. Ironically I moved away from Linux light due to display issues on a different laptop and followed a very favourable review posted on ghacks.net that led me to Solus.
Really enjoyed the operating system and the friendly forum which is why I am still here.
It seems very strange that Linux-Lite carries the bug despite being Ubuntu based whereas other Ubuntu based OS's like Linux Mint were rock solid, pretty sure Feren was the Debian version and not the Ubuntu build.
Food for thought. I don't think the flicker is a deal breaker for Solus on my 7280 especially now I can use my desktop again with Nemo.
It would just be nice for everything to look 'right' when I show off my Solus laptop to friends.

Axios

BuzzPCSOS I dug out the dell latitude 5530 with doc I could not duplicate any issues
First time I had run linux on it and I really liked it was the fastest machine running from live that
I ever used.
I think its video related dont know why those machines would be that much different and dont
have a cure for you.

tomscharbach

Axios ... dont know why those machines would be that much different ...

Different onboard graphics, probably. My Latitude 5520 has Iris Xe graphics rather than UHD 620 graphics. I don't get the error on the 5520,

Axios I think its video related ...

I do, too, probably related to the the way in which the Dell i915 driver interacts with something in the Solus OS Layer. But I don't understand why we aren't seeing more reports of the issue, and I don't have the skill set to get to the bottom of it or solve it.

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