Microsoft Edge (Stable) Flatpak

tomscharbach

Microsoft Edge (Stable) is now available in Flathub for those of you who are interested.

brent

tomscharbach I spent some time with Edge about 2 months ago. Wasn't it a flatpak 2 months ago? I did not get it from microsoft or solus repo or appimage, and I don't have any snaps. Unless it was unstable flatpak?

edit: probably more than 2 months ago and likely spring or earlier this year..

tomscharbach

brent I spent some time with Edge about 2 months ago. Wasn't it a flatpak 2 months ago?

The beta version of Edge was available in the Flathub beta repository at that time, and that is what you used. The news is that the stable version of Edge is now available in the regular Flatfub repository, no longer experimental or a project under development.

brent

tomscharbach refreshed memory. thanks. Beta had some limitations vs. the pc version but that escapes me. I liked it but it was monolithic in many ways (compared to what I was used to that is). There was no setting to download the pdfs or open them anywhere but Edge and that was the dealbreaker for me. Edge, to it's credit, handles PDFs well, but I still wanted the interface of my choice. Why is MS so stubborn about this I wonder?

tomscharbach

brent Why is MS so stubborn about this I wonder?

I don't know, but my guess is that Microsoft is designing Edge to be a (the?) hub of Microsoft's shift toward cross-platform, online delivery of Microsoft SaaS.

tomscharbach

A quick update/report: I've been using the Edge Flatpak heavily since I installed it, and it seems to work flawlessly. The only issue is that it takes a 2-3 more seconds to load as a Flatpak on Solus than it does as a .deb installation on Ubuntu Budgie, but that's not a significant issue for me. Once Edge loads, I can't tell any difference in performance between the two installations. I suspect that a slight load lag goes with the territory.

joluveba

tomscharbach it takes a 2-3 more seconds to load as a Flatpak on Solus than it does as a .deb installation

Some time ago, I installed the Chromium flatpak, just to try it, and didn't feel any difference when loading compared to Brave (.eopkg). The only issue I had, was that the Plasma Integration extension didn't work.

WetGeek

joluveba The only issue I had, was that the Plasma Integration extension didn't work.

I also haven't found a way to import bookmarks from another browser. That would make it a lot easier to give Edge a good try. All I've found so far involves reading a file.

Microsoft has been accused of adding the "tab stacks" feature to Edge not long after Vivaldi released it with their browser, and I've been curious to try Microsoft's implementation of it. But I don't want to create dozens of bookmarks the old way, if I could just import them as other browsers can.

EbonJaeger

WetGeek Edge doesnt have tab stacks (sadly; its my favorite feature). They did add vertical tabs, so maybe they mean that?

Closest thing to tab stacks is the tab groups in Chromium (and thus Chrome, Brave, Edge, etc), which is nice, but still not quite as nice as tab stacks.

tomscharbach

WetGeek Microsoft has been accused of adding the "tab stacks" feature to Edge not long after Vivaldi released it with their browser, and I've been curious to try Microsoft's implementation of it.

"Accused"? Seriously? I don't know when Vivaldi added tab stacks, but Edge vertical tabs were on the planned features list in early 2019 when the MEI forum was opened. I don't know how long Microsoft had been planning the feature before the MEI forum was opened, but since it was on the list when the MEI forum was opened, vertical tabs were probably in planning for at least a year before that.

I am continually amused by the myopic self-absorption of Linux fanboys. My favorite example is a discussion on the Zorin forum in which the fanboys on that forum insisted that Microsoft had stolen Zorin's Windows 10X layout for use in Windows 11, entirely ignoring the fact that the Windows 11 layout developed out of the Windows 10X layout, a design project initiated 18 months before Zorin elected to build a "mimic Windows 10X" layout. And Zorin users commenting that thread took the idea that Microsoft had absconded with Zorin's Windows 10X layout seriously. My God! What planet do these people live on, anyway?

WetGeek I also haven't found a way to import bookmarks from another browser. That would make it a lot easier to give Edge a good try. All I've found so far involves reading a file.

Edge directly imports from the major browsers, but not from most of the minor browsers. Bookmarks can be imported from an HTML file in those cases. The reason you are seeing only "Import from HTML" is that you don't have any of the major browsers (Chrome, Firefox, Safari) on your computer.

Here's what you need to do:

Step 1 (in Vivaldi):

Export bookmarks to an HTML file:
--- Go to the Vivaldi menu > File > Export Bookmarks;
--- Choose the download location;
The file will be saved as an HTML file.

Step 2 (in Edge):

Import your Vivaldi bookmarks from the HTML file you saved in Step 1:

--- Open "Settings" (should open to your "Profile settings", but if not switch to the "Profile settings" tab);
--- Open "Import browser data":
--- Find "Import from other browsers" and click on the "Choose what to import" button
--- Select "Choose file" and find your HTML file;
--- Select "Open" and import from there.

Doing this will import your Vivaldi bookmarks.

tomscharbach

WetGeek @tomscharbach , did you notice this post? Is is possible you confused the idea of tab groups with the tab stacks feature? I haven't gotten far enough with Edge yet to check this for myself, but it's getting near the top of my to-do list.

I did notice @EbonJaeger's comment after you and I had posted.

I assumed, since you posted

WetGeek Microsoft has been accused of adding the "tab stacks" feature to Edge not long after Vivaldi released it with their browser, and I've been curious to try Microsoft's implementation of it.

that you were talking about an Edge feature, and what came to mind was vertical tabs. Apparently, @EbonJaeger had the same thought:

WetGeek EbonJaeger Edge doesnt have tab stacks (sadly; its my favorite feature). They did add vertical tabs, so maybe they mean that?

Now that I think about it, I realize that I have absolutely no idea what a Vivaldi "tab stack" is or what it does.

Looking at the tab management page on Vivaldi's website, Edge has many/most of the features shown, although some seem to be implemented differently.

Are any of these what you are referring to as "tab stacks"?

Edge must have something like "tab stacks", or the Vivaldi forum "accused" quote you mentioned doesn't make any sense.

Maybe the best bet is for you to go find that Vivaldi forum comment again and see what the folks in that thread are talking about -- if not vertical tabs or tab groups, collections, maybe? Anyway, let me know and I'll see if I can find it in Edge for you.

I don't use any of that stuff. As far as I am concerned, most of that stuff is just a another way to make life more complicated. Luddite, me.

WetGeek

EbonJaeger Edge doesnt have tab stacks (sadly; its my favorite feature). They did add vertical tabs, so maybe they mean that?

Closest thing to tab stacks is the tab groups in Chromium (and thus Chrome, Brave, Edge, etc), which is nice, but still not quite as nice as tab stacks.

Thanks for clearing that up for me. Apparently the discussion in the Vivaldi forum was on-target after all. By the way, tab stacks are my favotite Vivaldi feature as well. The rest of it just an excellent browser. The tab stacks feature makes it something special.

@tomscharbach , did you notice this post? Is is possible you confused the idea of tab groups with the tab stacks feature? I haven't gotten far enough with Edge yet to check this for myself, but it's getting near the top of my to-do list.

WetGeek

tomscharbach "Accused"? Seriously? I don't know when Vivaldi added tab stacks, but Edge vertical tabs were on the planned features list in early 2019 when the MEI forum was opened.

I read about this in a discussion on the Vivaldi forum. They might not have known how long tab stacks were on Microsoft's "planned features list," but they appeared to know how long after Vivaldi released that feature that Microsoft released theirs. Sorry I upset you.

I didn't realize why I didn't see more of Edge's import capabilities when I ran it. It seems they've got that handled very well.

tomscharbach

WetGeek I read about this in a discussion on the Vivaldi forum. They might not have known how long tab stacks were on Microsoft's "planned features list," but they appeared to know how long after Vivaldi released that feature that Microsoft released theirs. Sorry I upset you.

You didn't upset me (although your adoption of the Vivaldi forum "information" without fact-checking doesn't reflect your normal objectivity and clear-headedness), but the general middle-school taunts of Linux fanboys (Micro$oft, Windoze, et al) do not contribute to rational discussion of the advantages/disadvantages of Linux in general, and the myopic self-absorption that I too often see on Linux forums (e.g. the Zorin example, and the Vivaldi tabs example) reflects a level of sloppy thinking, irrational paranoia and inability/unwillingness to fact check and/or think objectively about Windows and Linux that does upset me. I wonder what a person thinking about Linux adoption thinks when he/she/they see that kind of stuff. Can't be good.

The Solus forum has been able to maintain a high level of objectivity and fair comment in the threads over the years, and that is a tribute (to my mind) to the folks who contribute to this forum. Other forums too often regress into flame wars. Our community seldom does, and on the rare occasions when it does, the moderators step in quickly to put an end to it. The Solus community, like Solus itself, is an example of how Linux should be.

WetGeek I didn't realize why I didn't see more of Edge's import capabilities when I ran it. It seems they've got that handled very well.

Importing bookmarks, passwords and other stuff from other browsers is always messy, and takes a lot of work and maintenance to keep current with changes in other browsers, so I think that Microsoft made the right decision to limit direct import to the three browsers with the highest market share. HTML import is more or less the Rosetta stone for importing, and works with just about any browser.

WetGeek

tomscharbach I think that Microsoft made the right decision to limit direct import to the three browsers with the highest market share.

That may be so, but it's occurred to me that what's needed for importing from just about any Chromium-based browser is probably the same as (or very close to) what's needed to import from Edge, another Chromium-based browser. I suspect that Microsoft's historical record of not making anything easy for their competitors might have played some small part in their decision.

When I'm not busy some time, I'll export my bookmarks from Vivaldi and import them into Edge, so I can work with it some more.

By the way, I didn't write that it was a fact that Vivaldi beat Microsoft to the tab stacks idea. I said they were accused of doing it. That I didn't spend time researching that farther is due to my disinterest in Edge for now. Perhaps after I get to explore it some more, I'll develop more interest in it. Who knows?

tomscharbach

WetGeek I suspect that Microsoft's historical record of not making anything easy for their competitors might have played some small part in their decision.

Of course. From a business standpoint, setting up direct imports from the major browsers (Chrome, Firefox, Safari) makes sense only because it makes it easier for users of those browsers to move from those browsers to Edge.

Between them, Chrome, Firefox and Safari command about 90% of browser market share. Edge commands about 6%, leaving 4% for all the other browsers. My guess is that the cost/benefit of developing/maintaining direct import from the 4% didn't compute, so to speak, particularly because the 4% is split among a half dozen browsers.

I'll bet that when Vivadi, Brave or any other browser hits a threshold (say 5-10% of browser market share) where the browsers are seen by Microsoft to be serious competitors for Edge, Microsoft will expand direct import to include those browsers.

I could easily be wrong, but that's what makes sense to me.

EDIT/UPDATE: I should probably have quoted desktop market share rather than all-devices market share. The desktop market shares are

Desktop Browser Market Share Worldwide - June 2022
Chrome 66.93%
Edge 10.63%
Safari 8.95%
Firefox 7.8%

In other words, Chrome, Safari and Firefox command 84% of the browser market share, Edge 10-11% and all others share 5-6% between them.

The cost/benefit reasoning stands, though.

WetGeek

tomscharbach The cost/benefit reasoning stands, though.

Maybe. But I still believe that the effort to include other Chromium-based browsers would be trivial. It could even be identical to importing from another copy of Edge. Why not make it easy for users of all those other Chromium-based browsers to try out Edge and maybe decide to adopt it?

So, in the cost/benefit analysis, the cost might turn out to be zero, or virtually so. Why not go for those extra percents.

I'm pretty sure that this horse is dead, so I'm going to quit beating it. I just wanted to say that I'm not yet convinced. But that's not important, even to me.

WetGeek

Linux Lite
Maybe I should be able to let go of this distro, but there was one more Displays property that I could try changing, and it might help a lot. In VirtualBox Manager, I'd used the default VMSVGA video support. For one absolutely last shot at this, I tried changing that to VBoxSVGA instead. And suddenly, all of the window sizing problems disappeared. I can resize any application window with the mouse now, including the package manager.

Speaking of the package manager, I've noticed something about my attempt to install the vivaldi.deb file that I downloaded. In this image of the downloaded files installer, this file looks disabled to me, and I haven't been able to change that. Clicking or double-clicking the file doesn't do a thing. And clicking the [Open] button is obviously meant for the package manager, as it displays a list of all the installed packages. At the same time, I can't imagine that Synaptic would exclude a file with a .DEB extension without even attempting to process it.

So I'm going to delete that file, browse to vivaldi.com, and download it again. There's a non-zero probability that Synaptic will open it on the way in this time, and install it. Slim chance, as I said, but that's all I need to try it again. Stand by ...

... Well guess what I just found as I started to delete that .DEB file. Especially take a look at that first line. Apparently Synaptic Package Manager won't do what it's supposed to do, but GDebi seems to be an alternative that might work.

No foolin'! Now I'm getting excited again. I can't wait to click [Install Package]

As you might expect, this unexpected bit of success has changed my perspective completely. Having apparently fixed the window manager issues, and figured out a way to install my browser, I'm once again enthused about giving Linux Lite a full daily-driver test for at least a day.

I have more to configure, though, especially with the Vivaldi that I've just now managed to install. This day is winding down for me, so it's going to be a project for tomorrow morning. I came this >< close to bailing out of this whole project a short while ago, until I quite accidentally figured out that a second package manager existed that might make a difference.

WetGeek

Agghh... I posted this to the wrong thread by mistake. I'm going to see if I can copy it and paste it to Distro Reviews 3.

If that won't work for me, could one of the moderators please do that for me?

EbonJaeger

tomscharbach Tab stacks are like a group of tabs, but not in the way that Chromium does it:

These are some of my stacks, with my mouse hovering over the one I keep for Solus tabs. I use the original compact mode, and not any of the newer double-decker or accordion style, the last of which is much more similar to regular Chromium groups.

I guess one of the main things that set stacks apart from groups is the ability to tile a tab stack:

I'm sure there are other differences, just none that I really care about for my own use. Both tab stacks and Chromium tab groups have existed for years, and I don't actually know which came first.

WetGeek

tomscharbach Are any of these what you are referring to as "tab stacks"?

Now that I've finally been able to get Vivaldi installed on my Linux Lite VM, and sync'ing it to fill the Start Page with bookmarks, the next step is for me to create tab stacks from those bookmarks. I'll document that process in my nect post in that thread. Or more likely, posts.

One of these days I'm going to take the time to learn how to make a video of this process, but I haven't done that yet, so a series of still images will have to do for now.

tomscharbach

EbonJaeger Thanks. I have a better idea now. I've never used Vivaldi so I am absolutely clueless about what @WetGeek is talking about.