Dell M4800 Precision Laptop Bluetooth - a never ending story

WetGeek

tomscharbach This thread doesn't rise to that convention.

It should be renamed soon. Sorry for my thoughtless naming ... my thoughts were on what I was going to say, not what I was going to call it.

WetGeek

I hate mysteries like this one. As I was looking through the system settings, I happened to check on Bluetooth, and got a big surprise. A brand-new message I'd never seen before.

Indeed, I was able to connect with my BT keyboard. And afterwards with the BT mouse. As I finish typing this, I'm using both of those. Just as if the last week or so never happened. And the Bluetooth icon in the system tray has returned from its vacation.

I have no idea what's going on. I'm hoping that Bluetooth won't fail on this machine before the new laptop arrives. Having bought and paid for it, there's no question whether I'll retire this one and start using that instead. But if I can find a reasonable future use for this one, presumably I'll be able to use BT with it (unless that fails again).

tomscharbach

WetGeek But if I can find a reasonable future use for this one (the M4880) ...

Consider repurposing the M4880 as a "who give's a flying ..." test machine. It takes the pressure off.

That's what I do. I have three Optiplex Micros -- the 7090 (2021) is my Windows production computer, the 7070 (2019) is my Linux production computer, and the 7050 (2016) is my test computer, a computer I can screw around with as much as I want without giving it a second thought. It is really nice to have test machine that you can nuke as needed, and if you burn it to the ground, no harm no foul.

tomscharbach

WetGeek I have no idea what's going on.

I don't either, not after the long history on the other thread, but I wonder if there might be a conflict between the current drivers and the computer's firmware.

tomscharbach

WetGeek I have no idea what's going on.

I notice that @Antoine is having issues with Bluetooth, too. It looks like systemd is terminating the process in his case. What is behind all this beats me, particularly since, in your case, the problem seems to be intermittent. It must be a somewhat narrow-gauge problem, though, or we would be seeing more reports, I suspect.

tomscharbach

If you do go the route of turning the M4800 into a test machine, consider reinstalling Windows as part of the repurposing and installing updated BIOS and Intel firmware updates. The M4800 "Drivers and Downloads" support page shows quite a number of 2019-2020-2021 updates that the computer would probably be the better for having.

If the M4800 had Windows 7, 8 or 10 installed on it when you bought it, you can install Windows 10 using the Media Creation Tool and the license will authenticate.

WetGeek

tomscharbach If the M4800 had Windows 7, 8 or 10 installed on it when you bought it, you can install Windows 10 using the Media Creation Tool and the license will authenticate.

Even if it no longer has the same disk in it that Windows was installed on? I assumed that the original product key would have been secreted away on that disk. Would it actually have been burned to the BIOS instead?

WetGeek

tomscharbach If the M4800 had Windows 7, 8 or 10 installed on it when you bought it, you can install Windows 10 using the Media Creation Tool and the license will authenticate.

It's trivial to pop the SSDs in and out of both the Precision and the Latitude. If the newer Latitude has a 2.5" SSD instead of an NVMe drive, I plan to put this configured SSD (from the Precision) into the Latitude. Then I can put the Windows 10 Pro SSD from the Latitude into the Precision and update its firmware from DELL.

Just four more days until I know for sure what's happening. Meanwhile, I've been reconfiguring everything in the big laptop.

tomscharbach

WetGeek Even if it no longer has the same disk in it that Windows was installed on? I assumed that the original product key would have been secreted away on that disk. Would it actually have been burned to the BIOS instead?

Windows authenticates against a Microsoft database which records OEM Windows licensing using the motherboard's unique ID. The OEM license, in other words, follows the motherboard. Once licensed, always licensed.

Retail licenses (for example, bought for a home-built), on the other hand, follow the installation disk and you have to have the 25-letter license code.

I updated six 2014-era Dell Optiplex computers at the railroad a few years ago, installing clean using the Media Creation Tool. The computers had Windows 8 OEM installed. Microsoft recognized the computers as Windows-OEM-licensed and authenticated Windows 10 without a burp.

If you decide to go that route, ask, and I'll do a step-by-step for you.

WetGeek

tomscharbach The OEM license, in other words, follows the motherboard.

Brilliant! All but one computer that I own originally came with Windows on it. Should I ever decide to give one away to someone who doesn't appreciate Linux, I could offer to revert it to Windows.

I wonder whether they're installing Windows 11 now instead of 10. They're certainly trying hard to get everyone to move to it.

Axios

tomscharbach I like that about dell I put win7 on some other dells and it installed never asked me for nothing But I was using the original dell win7 disk. Kinda cool

synth-ruiner

tomscharbach Windows authenticates against a Microsoft database which records OEM Windows licensing using the motherboard's unique ID. The OEM license, in other words, follows the motherboard. Once licensed, always licensed.

I remember reinstalling Windows once and being surprised that I didn't have to enter a product key. I assumed it was something like this - good to know 🙂

tomscharbach

WetGeek I wonder whether they're installing Windows 11 now instead of 10.

OEM's are installing Windows 11. Microsoft offers the Media Creation Tool for both Windows 10 and Windows 11 (different pages for each), because Windows 11 will not install on a computer built before 2018 in most cases. You will want Windows 10.

WetGeek They're certainly trying hard to get everyone to move to it.

Microsoft is determined to build enterprise-level end-to-end security into Windows. Windows 11, in conjunction with new hardware/firmware, is the platform on which Microsoft is building that level of security. Windows 10 and older hardware can't provide the level of security that enterprise-level customers are pushing.

WetGeek

tomscharbach Windows 11 will not install on a computer built before 2018 in most cases.

Yep. And it won't install on a VM in most cases either, but I created one. There are three new keys one must define in the registry before the installation actually starts. They instruct the installer to skip three checks that it normally does when it tests for Windows 11 compatibility.

I suspect that they might also make it possible to install Windows 11 on earlier machines. To be clear, my suspicion is the result of a thought experiment only -- I deleted said Windows 11 VM and wouldn't be the least bit interested in installing it on anything that I own.

tomscharbach

WetGeek I suspect that they might also make it possible to install Windows 11 on earlier machines.

I doubt it. Microsoft has been unyielding about the minimum requirements for a year now (supported processor, UEFI SecureBoot, TPM2 and so on), and there is no indication that Microsoft is going the lower the requirements.

Microsoft has, in fact, clearly stated that it will not, recently implemented a security change (Smart App Control) in Windows 11 that requires the newer hardware to function, and there is more to come. That ship has sailed.

Microsoft isn't going to turn around on this, and it shouldn't, in my opinion. Microsoft bent over backwards to accommodate old hardware for years at the cost of security, and that was a mistake.

WetGeek

tomscharbach I notice that @Antoine is having issues with Bluetooth,

I noticed that, too but since I had no idea what was causing the problem for me, and even less of an idea what caused his problem, I wasn't comfortable with declaring our issues related. But they may well be. If so, I'm surprised we haven't heard from more victims by now. BT is a pretty common service.

In related news, the initial shipping estimate for the Latitude told me it would arrive in four days -- which would be Sunday, now two days away. Yesterday I got an email from Amazon saying it will be here on Wednesday. So I'm especially glad that the big laptop continues to work right. And by tweakling it a little bit every day, I now I have it fully returned to its original condition. Even the list of web comics in Thunderbird. So I can be patient.

tomscharbach

WetGeek It's trivial to pop the SSDs in and out of both the Precision and the Latitude. If the newer Latitude has a 2.5" SSD instead of an NVMe drive, I plan to put this configured SSD (from the Precision) into the Latitude. Then I can put the Windows 10 Pro SSD from the Latitude into the Precision and update its firmware from DELL.

Several thoughts:

(1) Don't know what model Latitude you are getting, but I think that Latitudes have been using the M2 form factor drives for quite a few years. The simple way to check is to download the "Owner's Manual" (https://www.dell.com/support/home/en-us) for the model (e.g. Latitude 7280) you are buying and look at the section of the manual that describes hard drive replacement.

(2) I suggest that the first thing to do when you get the Latitude is to update BIOS and firmware (e.g. chipset, graphics and so on). The easiest way to do this is to identify your specific computer (use the Service Tag or let Dell identify the computer online) on Dell Support (again https://www.dell.com/support/home/en-us), go to the "Drivers and Downloads" page, and let Dell figure out what drivees your computer needs. Your BIOS/firmware might or might not need to be updated, but if your vendor did not do that as part of the refurbishing process, you will.

(3) Updating the Precision's BIOS/firmware is also important, of course. Whether you can do that by swapping drives after you have the Latitude updated or whether you will need a fresh install, I don't know.

WetGeek

tomscharbach look at the section of the manual that describes hard drive replacement.

I originally downloaded the Latitude manual for the 7280 you used as an example. When I realizes that the one I bought is a 5580, I downloaded that version. The 5580 manual is copyrighted 2021.

I see now that M2 is what DELL calls an NVMe drive, and it also contains the SATA 2.5" slot like the one in my wife's Latitude. So that quetion is answered. The Precision, of course, is older, so there's still the question of whether the correct drivers will be on its SSD. I won't know that until I try to swap them.

tomscharbach

@WetGeek I wanted to wait until I was on my Windows computer to add this: If you think that you will need to install Windows 10 Pro on the M4800, the best time to create the installation USB is while you are still running Windows 10 on the Latitude. You can create an installation USB from Linux, but it is more complicated (download the ISO and create a bootable USB using whatever Linux app you use for that purpose).

Here's what you do:

(1) Go to the Download Windows 10 page**. Be patient. It often takes a minute to load.

(2) Scroll down to the "Create Windows 10 installation media" section of the page, and click the "Download Tool Now". This will download a small file (MediaCreationTool21H2.exe) into your Downloads directory.

(3) Expand the Section "Using the tool to create installation media ..." and follow the directions to create a bootable Windows 10 USB. The process is automated, and basically consists of sticking an 8/16 blank USB in your computer and running MediaCreationTool21H2.exe from your Downloads file. During the process, you will be asked whether you want to install Windows 10 on the computer you are using or create media to use for Windows 10 installation on another computer. Choose the latter (duh). The process will create a bootable Windows 10 installation USB.

(4) When the installation USB has been created, boot to it from the M4800 using F12 repeat-click during boot, and the USB will open the installation screen and walk you through the installation process. At some point you will be asked what version you want to install and select "Windows 10 Pro". Easy as pie, as they say.

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** If you go to this page in Linux, you will be redirected to a page where you can download the ISO directly. If you want to create the bootable installation disk using Linux rather than Windows, feel free. It is the same process as creating an installation USB disk for a Linux distro. I've not used that method, so I don't know what problems you might encounter. Since you'll have Windows available on the Latitude, anyway, I think it would be simplest to create the USB using Windows.

WetGeek

WetGeek I see now that M2 is what DELL calls an NVMe drive, and it also contains the SATA 2.5" slot

No, even that isn't quite right. The manual refers to M.2 SATA drives and M.2 NVMe drives. Fortunately, I'm pretty sure that I don't need to know what M.2 really does mean, but I'll research it.

EDIT: The Latitude manual says: "This laptop supports HDD, M.2 SATA SSD, and M.2 PCIe NVMe." But the definitions of M.2 that I looked up differentiate betweek M.2 and SATA, calling M.2 as a form factor is a successor to SATA.

I'm sure I'm right about one thing, however. I don't need to know the answer.