synth-ruiner So, as a long time Go developer, I think most of the flack it gets is either a misunderstanding or no longer valid.

Error handling in Go is explicit because the alternative is Exceptions which tend to encourage passing an error on to upper layers in a non-obvious way, when often the problem can be handled immediately and better in the context of where it was first encountered. Coming from years of Java and C++ development, Exceptions are much harder to reason about and can be maddening to track down the source without good tooling.

Package management in Go was largely solved with the introduction of Go Modules. Before that, the biggest problem was many competing solutions that were cumbersome and problematic when crossing from one project to another. Most Go projects have standardized on modules now which has been a godsend for the rest of us. The only real complexity left there is multiple-versioning of modules with the same major version and that's just a matter of time.

Garbage collection hasn't been a problem in Go for a really long time. Most garbage collection happens asynchronously and the stop-the-world pauses are sub-millisecond in most cases now. Nowhere near disruptive enough to cause problems. Let's also realize that C++ used to be garbage collected and that Java still is, both having no problems at all handling GUI without freezing things.

George As far as Fyne itself is concerned I think it's a decent start at a Go toolkit, but I'm not really fond of its insistence on following Material Design principles. That tends to lead to UI which have too much space where they don't need it and not enough space where they do. I also think there's a tendency to not have enough contrast between colors which is bad for accessibility.

    DataDrake thanks for the comprehensive reply! I agree that exceptions are terrible and that explicitly checking for errors is the right way to do things, it's just that I'm a bit spoilt by Rust and its nice Option and Result types, match expressions and stuff like that. maybe there are similarly nice expressions in Go but I'm a newbie and don't know much πŸ˜…

    like I said, I wasn't actually sure if garbage collection would be a problem, so I'm glad to hear it's totally negligible.

    +1 for the accessibility issues of material design, too - most of the visual elements we traditionally use to hint at interactivity get stripped away, like bevelled buttons, scrollbars and such.

    Just to extend the list of available toolkits: I stumbled across ImGui in a tweet of John Carmack. There seems to be a sufficient number of maintainers and some "big" sponsors. Unfortunately, this is a toolkit for C++ and as Josh mentioned in his post, C++ is not an option. But maybe it could be interesting for people here who needs a lighter GUI toolkit for C++ than Qt.

      saitam I've previously assessed IMGUI and while it's useful for throwing things together for professional use, I don't think it's really a good option for user-facing GUIs. Between its dated look and feel and limited feature set, it isn't quite where we need it to be. If it were just me using a computer as normal, it wouldn't be an issue. But we have to account for user tastes and accessibility.

      Very well written!
      It’s always just the drama with gnome stuff.
      They have a very strict idea on how I should use my desktop, I think I’d rather not.
      Super excited for budgie11!

      6 days later

      LarryDC I use EliveOS with E24 and it still have some ruff edges. Both version 16 & 24 are available but the core of elive users are mostly E16. E24 has a lot nicer configuration tool and personally I prefer E24. But I would say that if you want to use wayland it is not very stable yet. I hope it gets better soon because wayland is going to be necessary for the future. There seems to be possibility that EFL could use Wayfire under wayland (wayfire is Compiz rewritten for Wayland).
      Regards,
      Bernard

      Hello All.
      After reading the original post, I decided to write here because the situation worries me.
      The fact is that the Solus distribution is also used by blind users. Although there are currently accessibility issues, Solus is the best of today's distributions for the blind. But if users used to install only Solus-MATE, recently, people are starting to be interested in Budgie, as accessibility in this work environment has improved.
      So I want to ask: Please keep accessible.
      Personally, I use MATE because this environment is currently the most accessible for blind users, but I know for sure that other users are interested in Budgie (particularly, from time to time, Budgie is discussed in the Orca mailing list).
      I would also like to take this opportunity to thank Solus. This is a great distribution that is the best in everything. So I would like Solus to be the best in terms of accessibility.
      Sorry for my bad English.

      I know Solus main focus is dark theme but will there be an option for white one also?
      I'm playing with CuteFish and it looks amazing.

      Possibility of changing terminal transparency by your taste is really nice πŸ™‚

      Folks, let's try to keep this thread on topic please. Other distros should generally be discussed in off-topic threads.

      Good to see, that you're planning a solid way forward.

      Having opted for the Gnome edition years ago because I found myself configuring budgie to feel a little more the Gnome way - the way I was used to, I am happy to move to budgie if Gnome will be discontinued especially since Gnome 4x was apparently developed without a lot of end user involvement, now lacking key 3rd party features. I fully agree with your statement regarding Gnome "...that does not (in our opinion) provide the most optimized experience for laptop and desktop users".

      Please provide a migration path for current Gnome edition users.

      Make sure you have an application panel like "Dash-to-Dock" in place when you release it and you'll make many current Gnome users happy, I think.

      From a marketing perspective, I'd suggest to stop calling budgie a more "traditional" desktop - sounds like "old fashioned" to me which doesn't apply. How about putting attributes like intuitive, lean, modern, efficient, responsive in the foreground to underline its progressive nature.

      Add UI step-by-step programming totorials (for low, medium, high skill levels) to the solus webpage so developers find it easy to develop applications based on the new Ecosystem.

      Oh, I am sure, I can find a spare SSD to support testing and assume you'll make an announcement, when you need people to support testing.

        skib Make sure you have an application panel like "Dash-to-Dock" in place when you release it and you'll make many current Gnome users happy, I think.

        We've had a Dock mode for the panel for years, so that's already addressed.

        I'd suggest to stop calling budgie a more "traditional" desktop - sounds like "old fashioned" to me which doesn't apply.

        I mean you can think of it however you like, but the reality is compared to other desktop environments like GNOME, Pantheon, or even macOS, Budgie does follow a more traditional metaphor. That doesn't make it old fashion no more than, for example, Plasma, which also follows a traditional metaphor.

        How about putting attributes like intuitive, lean, modern, efficient, responsive in the foreground to underline its progressive nature.

        It isn't lean or efficient though, that's one of the main problems with it leveraging Mutter, other software developed by GNOME, and it being mostly written in Vala. It'd be dishonest marketing. Our Experiences page on the Solus site pitches it as "A feature-rich, luxurious desktop using the most modern technologies." and the GitHub repo pitches it as "a feature-rich, modern desktop designed to keep out the way of the user" - both already using "modern".

        Add UI step-by-step programming totorials (for low, medium, high skill levels) to the solus webpage so developers find it easy to develop applications based on the new Ecosystem.

        My intent is to have a new Budgie website, not have it be part of the Solus website, as Budgie is distro-agnostic. A "step-by-step" or introduction would also be more appropriate for being built into Budgie.

          JoshStrobl We've had a Dock mode for the panel for years, so that's already addressed.

          The Dock mode doesn't quite do it for me which is why I run with Plank as a dock. It might work if you have small icons but as soon as it gets bigger, the scaling is not perfect.

          In any case, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it

          It seems to be a trend nowdays and its spilling over into linux these companies changing and not really listen take what we give been reading alot of posts here on the direction of solus. I use budgie had and have my battles with it
          on and off. Recently set up gnome for family member didnt use it ended up with it so thought i would put it through its paces had some hiccups to gnome 41 I dont like version changes and stuff that you had been using doesnt work specially when theme is envolved (gnome extensions) Plus my recent adventure with shotcut I finally realised the issues around the themes and qt apps and gtk . Gnome i think is prob a great get your feet wet distro for new ppl great where you can just use it and it works and doesnt need changed alot for someone. Budgie I think could take its place If some careful thought goes into it and provide some good user experience plus not be overly complicated for someone and some the issues that go on now with the two distros are not repeated with it and ease of updates dont turn into a major ordeal for users and programmers.(after reading posts and his website i think josh is prob on target) I think whatever you use efl it needs to provide a good look I have a hard time with the washed out old time linux look prob what you call flat look nowdays. All in all solus prob been the most stable still havent got my asus tablet running fedora updated it went out to lunch on this gnome crap..lol ( just some input and rambling..lol)

            Man I just read that got stop the 3am cant sleep stuff...Sorry makes crapy reading.

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            So, to my understanding Solus will ship vanilla GNOME on Gnome Edition ? I am interested in it. As a casual user, I like how Adwaita looks and its Icons looks carefully crafted.