Avidgamefan For those who like OpenSUSE, I found a variant called Gecko that seems to add a few things, like improved fonts and such.

Having been an openSuSE user since something like v6.0 (until I met Solus), your mention of Gecko got me intrigued. I decided to create a Gecko VM and take a look around. Installation was very smooth and straightforward, as was connecting to my network printer. Yast is still Yast, although I was surprised that no repository I could add included Vivaldi. As the greatest browser on the planet, that seemed like quite an omission to me. Not even Pacman included it.

I was able to browse to vivaldi.com using Firefox and download their .rpm file, which was immediately loaded into Yast for installation. I haven't looked at Tumbleweed for quite a while, so I don't know whether that feature's the same, or it's a Gecko improvement. I remember loading external packages being a little complicated back in the day.

Anyway, I did get Vivaldi loaded and configured, and decided to take a new look at its email client. Seems much improved over the earlier versions I'd seen, but still not a replacement for Thunderbird.

Overall impression, operation of Gecko felt like driving a school bus compared to Solus' sports car experience. I had totally gotten used to Solus' speed and responsiveness, whereas I'd previously thought openSUSE (and now Gecko) was very normal for Linux. It's interesting to see what they've done with the old lady, but she's certainly no threat to young Solus!

      N1X3L If not Solus, I would use GeckoLinux. It's a curated and polished version of openSUSE, with out-of-the-box functionality. I've been trying it out, and it gives me Solus vibes, because it offers a rolling-release model, a Budgie desktop environment, and the kind of user-focused experience I want in a daily-driver distro.

      Gecko Budgie is one of two permanent installations** in my Gnome Boxes collection. Gecko Budgie is permanent because it is the only distro I've found that gives Solus Budgie any competition at all, for all the reasons you've pointed out.

      The Budgie DE is well designed, but an older version from an outdated repository, and has real limitations compared to Solus Budgie (e.g centered taskbar only, top bar, limited ability to customize). I hope that as the Budgie project gets underway and develops, the Gecko version of Budgie (and other non-Solus versions) will be brought up to Solus standards.

      Avidgamefan For those who like OpenSUSE, I found a variant called Gecko that seems to add a few things, like improved fonts and such. Seemed a bit spartan for my tastes, but I guess it was OK.

      Gecko is spartan by design. To be blunt, openSUSE is a monster -- the ISO is 4.5 GB, most of the included packages irrelevant for ordinary use -- while Gecko is curated for ordinary users, with an 1.7 GB ISO. It is a bit on the spartan side, but I prefer spartan to overloaded.

      WetGeek Overall impression, operation of Gecko felt like driving a school bus compared to Solus' sports car experience. I had totally gotten used to Solus' speed and responsiveness, whereas I'd previously thought openSUSE (and now Gecko) was very normal for Linux. It's interesting to see what they've done with the old lady, but she's certainly no threat to young Solus!

      That's my impression, too. My canary is a Dell Inspiron 3180 with an AMD A6/R5 4GB setup. Solus Budgie is fast and efficient on that minimal rig. Gecko Budgie is almost as sluggish as Windows 10. Not quite, but sluggish enough to notice.

      The update process is also arduous. Following openSUSE practice, Gecko updates replace the entire set, not just updated packages as Solus and most other distros do. I'm updating Gecko as we speak, and 1189 packages are being updated. That's a lot.

      Although I would probably call it a day if Solus disappeared and use Windows 11 or (maybe) buy a MacBook, Gecko Budgie is a solid distro, Budgie issues and update issues aside, and a good candidate for Solus Budgie replacement.

      ==================

      ** The other is Zorin 16, which I keep on tap because I have been helping a fellow-geezer newbie deal with Linux, his son having convinced him to move to Zorin rather than replace his Windows 10 computer in 2024-2025. A bad decision, in my opinion, and I won't be at all surprised to see my friend on Windows 11 before this is all over.

              You know I was reading this thread yesterday and decided to go linux looking yest and you know what
              I didnt come across anything that really floated my boat. But I installed Solus on that little ideapad other than
              my absent mind it all worked turned it on and ahhhhhh like fresh air..lol

              I will do as I have always done with win7 will download drivers ect ect ,Image disks for all my computers
              and try make sure I have everything to make it last another 10 years...haha

              Windows 10 never impressed me and I wont go above win7
              I think alot Linux Distros would do themselves good to scale back abit and refine what they have
              might be surprised at what would happen in the Linux world

              And you know its about the same with apple I wont go above Mojava but that being said If I had to pick
              one if Solus was gone prob be another apple Just for the fact that it doesnt give me any problems may not
              agree with what they do but apples are pretty stable and most major companies have drivers and software for apple.

              Linux is secondary for me at this point in time But Solus has made me use it more and more so thats a good thing
              and that will continue because of the direction software and these companies are going.

              Sometimes greener pastures and the other side of the fence are not the best..lol

              Ahhh...Done Rambling

                tomscharbach Gecko Budgie is one of two permanent installations** in my Gnome Boxes collection.

                I just went with the default Plasma installation, as that's what I use in Solus. The menus, settings, etc, are very familiar to me. I probably could have done well with Budgie, but when I tried installing that as a second DE using YaST, I ran into an unending list of conflicts to resolve, and to me it wasn't worth the time. Maybe later.

                Given the quaity of the rest of the distro, I would assume they did a good job with Budgie as well.

                  Axios I think a lot Linux Distros would do themselves good to scale back a bit and refine what they have
                  might be surprised at what would happen in the Linux world.

                  Linus Torvalds observed years ago that Linux on the desktop was not likely to gain market share unless and until the community developed the self-discipline to focus on a standardized desktop and a limited collection of high-quality software that integrates and interacts end-to-end within working environments.

                  I think that Torvalds was right. As much as we complain about Windows, MacOS and ChromeOS, Apple, Microsoft and Google have each succeeded in developing a working environment that is out-of-the-box functional end-to-end internally, for the most part. The Linux community has not. The current state of "Linux on the Desktop" -- seemingly endless branching, forking. splitting off, upstream/downstream bottlenecks, "dependency hell" and so on -- reminds me of an old lawyer joke -- "Ask four lawyers a simple question and you will get nine answers."

                  I remember the numerous predictions (circa 2009/2010 or so) that Ubuntu was going to bring Linux to the desktop -- predictions of a 25% or so market share. It didn't happen, of course. Outside the corporate environment where IT support is readily available, Linux on the desktop is confined -- still confined -- largely to developers and tinkerers. That's not going to change unless something changes in the way Linux DE's and applications are developed.

                  Overall, the best that can be said right now about the state of Linux on the desktop is that it is usable.

                  I am reminded of how low that standard actually is for ordinary users like my geezer-friend trying to use Zorin 16, a relatively simple, straightforward Windows-like distro, to do simple things that he is used to doing in Windows 10. It is always something, and more often than not, a struggle to get and keep his environment working.

                  My friend isn't dumb. He's a retired mechanical engineer who was a senior lead on the team that built the largest machine currently in use on planet earth. But he just wants his computer to work, and doesn't want to become an OS technician. Linux isn't going to do that for him.

                  I think that those of us who have been using Linux for years and years forget how difficult the Linux desktop can be for ordinary, non-technical users. Until that changes, Linux desktop is not going to gain much market share, whatever happens in the Windows, MacOS and ChromeOS world.

                      tomscharbach

                      I, too, agree that Linux isn't ready to challenge Windows for the desktop, but I think the main reason for that is merchandising, not that distros like Solus are impossible for reasonably bright individuals to use. After all, Windows is pre-installed on nearly every laptop and desktop by their OEMs, and it has been that way for so long that there's a lot of inertia built up.

                      Solus would get my vote for an out-of-the-box desktop and laptop OS, as it comes pre-configured with a great email client, a very good browser, and a reasonably complete office suite that's quite compatible with Microsoft Office documents. Home users, and office workers like order-takers, accountants, document writers, secretaries, receptionists, HR workers, and just about anyone else who doesn't need to develop or support Windows software could be quite happy with a distro like Solus.

                      One would expect developers creating Windows applications, as I did for decades, to do so on Windows machines. Database developers would probably need something more like SLES, but that's still Linux, as are most servers these days. For business offices in other industries, Linux could save the businesses the cost of Windows (if OEMs would offer Windows-free configurations for enterprise customers). OEM licenses are cheap, but Linux is even cheaper.

                      In short, I guess I'm just more optimistic about modern Linux capabilities and "user friendliness." especially with Solus. Sure, there are distros that I consider junk, but no one is forced to use those. Not while Solus is available for free.

                          tomscharbach I think that those of us who have been using Linux for years and years forget how difficult the Linux desktop can be for ordinary, non-technical users.

                          It (linux) was one hell of a learning curve for me. But then again, so was DOS when I was a kid. I see your argument about having to dumb linux down for the masses as the only way to grab a paying market share. That would require, yes, a unified desktop or cohesive commitment across forks. Half of these DE's belong in the trash anyways (I'm looking at you XFCE🙂). But I LOVE having a choice.

                          tomscharbach As much as we complain about Windows, MacOS and ChromeOS, Apple, Microsoft and Google have each succeeded in developing a working environment that is out-of-the-box functional end-to-end internally, for the most part.

                          I disagree here. When you are the only game in town, a virtual monopoly, then your "success" was by default and really not offering the world anything beautiful and functional. Although I do like the Apple aesthetic better. All pale to Budgie, ironically. Turning my back on MS was the finest thing I ever did for my personal life. I find Chrome repugnant-looking. The Opera of the 90's was the last browser I truly enjoyed looking at but Brave is great on the eyes. Browsers are a means to an end, anyway. But, again, I LOVE having choices.

                          If there is a unified Linux vision that makes a serious run at a market share will all the choices we are used to disappear? (rhetorical)

                          You waxing philosophical rubbed off! Sorry to ramble.

                                tomscharbach I totally remb and understand on your comments.
                                I put together a i5 solus gnome for mom sooooooooooo simple (the reasoning was less work for me..lol)
                                but she never turned it on or used it once,so I upgraded her to win7 dell laptop she uses it all the time..lol
                                (Dunno guess I am drunk..j/k)
                                Everybody here have made some valid points depending on how you look at it.
                                30 years of dealing with ppl coming in the door my perspective and confidence is alittle different.

                                    tomscharbach As much as we complain about Windows, MacOS and ChromeOS, Apple, Microsoft and Google have each succeeded in developing a working environment that is out-of-the-box functional end-to-end internally, for the most part. The Linux community has not.

                                    I can't comment on MacOS or ChromeOS, but Microsoft Windows definitely wasn't "out-of-the-box functional end-to-end" for me. That's 80% of the reason I even switched to Solus. It might work reasonably well most of the time, but so does Solus; and the times when Windows doesn't work in a major way you can basically give up hope on trying to fix it, while with Solus/Linux I can look at the source of the problem (literally 🙂) and often find/implement a solution.

                                    Case in point I recently had to read out a bluetooth pairing key from my Windows installation (in a deep, hidden part of the registry). Somehow Powershell refused to let me access it, and after trying workarounds I found on the internet for half an hour or so, I had to resort to launching Solus to read Window's own registry, using a readily available tool.
                                    Similar experience for e.g. printer driver installations. On Windows: Download this 500 MB setup file, try to get through the setup without installing five additional programs you do not want, and in the end it might work. On Solus: plug the printer into my PC, print. (I know I've been lucky in that regard when I read about other people's printer troubles though).

                                    Of course there are rough edges with Linux/Solus, and we should keep those in mind and work to smooth them out. Every time I stumble over something like that I do my best to try to remedy situation in a way so that the next person has a smoother experience. If I can't fix it, I at least document it (e.g. bug report) and leave enough information to enable someone else to improve it. This way I hope that we can some day live in a world where there is no doubt at all that Linux provides the best "out-of-the-box functional end-to-end" experience 😃

                                      Axios I put together a i5 solus gnome for mom sooooooooooo simple (the reasoning was less work for me..lol)
                                      but she never turned it on or used it once,so I upgraded her to win7 dell laptop she uses it all the time..lol

                                      Gnome is too different from the Windows paradigm, if she was used to Windows no wonder she didn't want to use Gnome, I don't feel comfortable with it either. I would've gone with something closer to Windows desktop like KDE Plasma or Mate. If you customize KDE Plasma to resemble Windows, I bet she couldn't even tell the difference.

                                      The best metrics of usability for me is my wife, for her a computer is like a washing machine, she wants it to work, stand out of the way, and that's it. My wife often stores files (PDF's, JPEG's) she wants to use on the desktop. If she used Gnome, I can imagine her protests when she noticed she can't do that, "this Linux thingie sucks, I can't save files on the desktop, it's broken". She doesn't care that Gnome isn't supposed to work like that, that's what she's used to do and that's it. This story has a happy end, with Solus KDE my wife hasn't protested a single time. What she can do in Windows, she can do here.

                                          tomscharbach I am reminded of how low that standard actually is for ordinary users like my geezer-friend trying to use Zorin 16, a relatively simple, straightforward Windows-like distro, to do simple things that he is used to doing in Windows 10. It is always something, and more often than not, a struggle to get and keep his environment working.

                                          My friend isn't dumb. He's a retired mechanical engineer who was a senior lead on the team that built the largest machine currently in use on planet earth. But he just wants his computer to work, and doesn't want to become an OS technician. Linux isn't going to do that for him.

                                          I haven't used Zorin (I tried it once with an USB, the desktop is very beautiful), but I have used Linux Mint, another Ubuntu derivative, and although I liked it, I know that "it is always something" and "a struggle to keep your computer working" feeling. I know I must sound like a fanboy, and this is the Solus forum, but I finally settled in Solus because I don't feel like I have to struggle against my computers to make everything work.

                                          By the way, did you try evangelizing your friend about the virtues of Solus? I could not shut up

                                              joluveba Gnome is too different from the Windows paradigm, if she was used to Windows no wonder she didn't want to use Gnome, I don't feel comfortable with it either.

                                              That's exactly why I've never recommeded GNOME to anybody. You practically need to have grown up using it in order to feel comfortable with it. Based on my own wife's experience with her laptop, I'd certainly add Budgie to the list of DEs that are easy to grasp for anyone already familiar with Windows. That's what's on her laptop now, and has been for years.

                                              And let's face it, folks, LOTS of people's first personal computer was a Windows machine. (Mine was a VIC-20, then a Commodore 64, then a Kaypro 4-84 CPM machine, but I'm not most people.) Many, if not most, of today's PC users have never used anything but a Windows machine. So it's no wonder that a DE like GNOME woud make the change from Windows to Linux very difficult for them.

                                              I use Plasma, as I've said here often, but that's because at the time I changed from my beloved Budgie, there were just a couple of reasons for the change, and those reasons still exist. For example, limiting the number of workspaces to 8 didn't fit my usage pattern that I'd developed over decades of work experience and home use.

                                              On Windows, I'd used a little free software tool called VirtuaWin to provide workspaces. Even in Windows 11, Microsoft still hasn't come up with a multiple workspace strategy that's as good as it is on Liinux or by using Virtuawin on any version of Windows. And at home, every Linux distro I'd ever tried offered multiple virtual workspaces (because UNIX did so, long before.).

                                              And currently, my laptop has a full HD screen and our TV is a 4K model. Budgie only offers 1x or 2x options for scaling output. I use 1.25x to comfortably use my laptop, and 4x to be able to read text on my TV from across the living room. That leaves Budgie out of the running, but Plasma solves both problems.

                                                joluveba By the way, did you try evangelizing your friend about the virtues of Solus? I could not shut up

                                                Quietly.

                                                I use Solus on my railroad museum computer and am not shy about my opinion that Solus Budgie is a near-perfect desktop environment. I have used Budgie "with him" plugged into a monitor while we together search for parts and equipment, so he has seen it in action many times. He knows that I am very familiar with Zorin 16 (explored Zorin 16 as a Windows 10 replacement for a specific use case at the museum) and that (although I think Zorin 16 is a fine distro) I personally prefer Solus by a mile.

                                                But I have not pushed him away from Zorin toward Solus.

                                                The reason is threefold: (1) I don't want to insert myself between him and his son (no good can come of that), (2) he and his wife both use the computers (a desktop and a laptop), so selecting a distro is not up to him alone, and (3) the desktop is connected to peripherals and uses applications that are supported by/for Ubuntu/Zorin, but not Solus.

                                                The bottom line is that, although I think that his son made a mistake pushing him toward Linux rather than waiting a couple of years, purchasing new equipment and migrating to Windows 11, I think that Zorin 16 is an appropriate choice for he and his wife at this time.

                                                  WetGeek After all, Windows is pre-installed on nearly every laptop and desktop by their OEMs, and it has been that way for so long that there's a lot of inertia built up.

                                                  The question then becomes what it would take to pre-install Linux on laptops and desktops for consumer users.

                                                  Dell, for example, offers a line of business/developer "Linux Workstations and Laptops" -- XPS, Latitude, Precision -- that come with Linux (Ubuntu and/or Red Hat) pre-installed, and offers excellent support for Linux pre-installed systems, but Dell does not, to my knowledge, offer Linux pre-installed on any of its consumer lines.

                                                  What would it take to motivate Dell to expand Linux installation and support into consumer lines? The consumer market is significantly different from the developer market (less sophisticated users) and the business/enterprise market (little or no professional IT support in-house). My view is that the Linux desktop will have to significantly improve Linux "user-friendliness" and significantly reduce post-OOB support needs in order (support in the business/enterprise market is relatively inexpensive for OEM's, but more expensive in the consumer market) for that to happen.

                                                  In short, I don't think that the Linux desktop is developed enough for use by consumers, and will, unless something changes, remain the province of developers, tinkerers and enterprise-level business users.

                                                  While I agree with Torvalds about the things that need to change in order for the Linux desktop to develop into a consumer product, I'm not sure that widespread adoption by consumers is a good thing or a goal the Linux community should be seeking. It may well be that the optimal market share for Linux desktop is 3-4% or so, staying out of the consumer market for the next few years, anyway. If Torvalds is right about what it would take to expand the Linux desktop market, it would likely come at the expense of @elfprince's "Choices and flexibility, a big plus in Linux's favor."