Please Help install Solus on Legacy Bios MBR/DOS HDD

BTO

dear solus team,
i am a NOOB :-) and need HELP for a clean installation of Solus-Budgie.
and maybe everyone who is coming from Archlinux/Manjaro is having the same problem?

right now i am having a clean standard Manjaro-MATE installation on my laptop, and i want to wipe it because i am quite old and i am not getting well with all the huge amount of complicated updates from Archlinux, and install Solus instead.

my laptop is Legacy BIOS MBR/DOS on a HDD.
it is NOT uefi.

Manjaro has standardly installed a GRUB on my Master Boot Record of the HDD.
This GRUB from the MBR is pointing to a GRUB-sector on the HDD, and the GRUB-sector is pointing further to the Manjaro-System.

i installed Solus from the ISO with the option "delete the hard drive", and the Solus partitions were generated on the HDD, but the system was not bootable and could not find the boot sector.

i assume the Manjaro-GRUB on the Master Boot Record still pointed to the Manjaro-GRUB-sector on the disk, which was not existing anylonger, instead of pointing to Solus.

Then i tried first only with GPARTED to create a new partition table. This seemed to do nothing. Afterwards i installed Solus again, but the Solus-system was not bootable again.

Manjaro-GRUB seems to permanently remain on the Master Boot Record, letting no changes being applied, or other distributions installed.

then - in desparation - i even tried to install Ubunt and also my WinXP recovery cds: Nothing worked, recovery not executable, HDD unbootable.

now i re-installed Manjaro again, and the laptop boots using GRUB without problem, and i am online here with it.

Could you please explain detailed step by step (i am NOOB :-) ) what i have to do for installing Solus on my Legacy BIOS MBR HDD?

does the Solus-installer NOT update the MBR in order to remove the Manjaro-GRUB from it?

i am afraid that messing with the MBR could also completely destroy the HDD…

Also i noticed during 10 different attempts to install Solus in various ways (format the disk to GPT, NTFS, etc): the installer always installed GPT partitons for the boot sectors, even though i am on Legacy BIOS MBR/DOS?

many thanks for any help!

TraceyC

BTO I'm sorry you're having trouble installing Solus Budgie.

What's the file name on your ISO?

We recently released 4.5 and just wanted to make sure you're using the latest installer. We also changed installers in 4.5, so this may be a problem with that installer.

It's odd that the installer would use GPT partitions if your system can't use those. We need a little more information to troubleshoot this issue and help you get Solus installed.

If this is a laptop, which make and model is it?
If this is a desktop computer, what is the make and model of your motherboard?

BTO

TraceyC
dear Tracey,
i tried to do another installion of Solus, and again it failed:
the installer finished without any errors, but on restart the system was not bootable.
i noticed that even i was fully on Manjaro MBR BIOS: the installation summary said that it is generating a new GPT PARTITION TABLE on the Master Boot Record.
So this must be wrong in the installer.
There was no option to choose otherwise.

here some screenshots: "Install Bootloader to BIOS MBR"

Summary says: "create a new GPT Partition Table"

Is there anything i can change during the installation process to get this done?
Maybe somewhere in a .conf-file of the installer?

if needed, i can also provide the inxi of the Manjaro-installation

BTO

TraceyC
dear Tracey,
i just re-installed Manjaro again.
It uses the same Calamares installer as Solus.
Because Solus was installed falsely as GPT on the HDD one hour ago, the similiar Solus-installation-pic from before now said BIOS + GPT.

But even though the Manjaro-installer recognised it as GPT: the Manjaro-installer created a MSDOS - Partition Table on the Master Boot Record.

All this in the summary and during installation.
my laptop is now bootable with Manjaro and its Grub, and all works.
it seems the Manjaro-installer is more correct in choosing the format of the partition table (MSDOS or GPT), while the Solus-installer seems to always choose GPT.

...and i still have no idea how i could install Solus successfully.

BuzzPCSOS

A few questions if you would be so kind.
What install media are you using - DVD or USB?
If USB what tool are you using to make USB bootable? Ventoy, Rufus, Etcher or another.
What version of Solus are you trying to install? Plasma, Gnome, Budgie or XFCE
Have you downloaded the iso from the Solus website and confirmed the checksums with those given on the same?
What is the model and year of your laptop?
How much RAM is installed?
How big is the HD/SSD?
All of this information is required so it is best to give as much information as possible to help myself and other users help you as best we can.
Edit.
Apologies to @TraceyC , I was typing slowly on a phone keypad and did not see your reply.

BTO

BuzzPCSOS
dear Tracey and Buzz,
i had downloaded the latest Solus 4.5 ISO directly from the Solus homepage.
version Solus-BUDGIE.
i did not confirm it with checksums (frankly: i have no idea how to do that... :-) )

i used the Balena-Etcher 1.5.102-x64 Appimage to flash it on a USB stick.
so far Etcher has always worked flawless on every image.

my laptop is a HP Elitebook 8560p
i think it was produced 2012.
4 GB RAM
the HDD has 320 GB memory. no other disks.

many thanks! i will head to bed in the meantime as it is already getting late over here...

BuzzPCSOS

I have performed a similar install of Solus 4.5 onto a 2008 Acer Aspire 5920 using Ventoy instead of Etcher. The system is also non-uefi so very similar. The whole setup went without an issue so the bios thing should not be a problem.
Generally choosing to wipe the entire disk within the install dialogue is adequate however I think I remember that creating a Grub loader is optional during the setup and it will additionally ask where it needs to go. If you did not choose to install Grub, or inadvertently selected your USB stick for the Grub loader then booting after installation would not be possible. A quick sanity check is always worthwhile on the summary screen of the installer, scroll down a little past where partition information is shown and it should confirm a GPT partition sda and near the bottom of the screen a boot loader being loaded to the same sda location.
Ideally run the install with WiFi on so that anything extra required by the installer can be downloaded automatically.
Generally the install program is very intuitive so be careful not to try and overthink things. If it tells you that something needs to be done then usually that needs an action but mostly you can click through with all of the standard options unchanged and still end up with a system that will boot
The Bios holds the information to tell the computer what to boot with. If the (Bios or RTC) battery is low then this information could become corrupted or lost. This is usually accompanied by loss of date and time settings after being switched off for a few days. Try using F12 key at boot to look for your bootloader.
As the Bios stores the time and date for your computer, if the bios time has reset to (for instance) 2012, then some systems will see the future dated system files (present date Solus) as being corrupt and prevent boot. Always check your Bios date is correct (usually F2 key at startup)
Different systems require more hard drive integrity than others. Check hard drive SMART data. This can be done from Solus Budgie 'live' OS by using the Disks program to check the 350gb hd. Click on the three little dots in the top right corner of the program window to access the smart info. Your HD should report ok health if everything here is serviceable.
Sorry this is such a long message, I hope you don't find my suggestions too daunting or long winded to follow.
Good luck

ermo

@BTO

If you know you are going to wipe the entire disk, you might have more luck if you completely zero out the first few megabytes of the disk? This will effectively wipe the partition table and any bootloader code that was previously installed.

This is how you would do that:

1) Figure out what the name of your harddisk is (mostly likely /dev/sda):
sudo lslblk -f

2) Use the tool dd in a virtual terminal to wipe the first 16 MiB of your disk (assuming that your disk is named /dev/sda):
sudo dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda bs=4M count=4 oflag=sync status=progress

3) Verify that the /dev/sda partition table has been wiped:
sudo lsblk -f

4) Do a normal install where you ask the Solus Calamares installer to erase the entire disk.

From what I recall, we have configured the installer to always use GPT partitions. If you are on system with BIOS firmware (not UEFI), a small 8MB compatibility partition will therefore be created right at the beginning of the disk, which will have GRUB2 bootloader trampoline code installed for being able to boot from GPT partitions.

5) Assuming that the Calamares installer now completes successfully, check the new partition table:
sudo lsblk -f

Hope this helps.

BTO

ermo
dear ermo,
thanks for your help, i read from this that Solus is using GRUB2 bootoader.

my thought now: which version of Grub is it exactly?
maybe the Solus installer denied to install the Solus-Grub on my MBR/EFI master boot record, because my Manjaro had the uttermost latest version Grub 2.12 and the installer denied to overwrite this newest version?

from the Manjaro update-announcements:

With GRUB 2.12 out it is recommended to also install grub to your master boot record or EFI partition. On Manjaro grub gets only installed when you install it to your harddrive the first time. Only advanced users also keep their MBR/EFI in-sync as every package update of grub doesn’t update the installation on your MBR/EFI.

Depending on your system hardware and setup this may could cause an unbootable system on rare cases due to incompatibilities between the installed bootloader and configurations. After a grub package update it is advised to run both, installation and regeneration of configuration.

now, after failing to install Solus and re-installing Manjaro without updating, i assume to be on Grub Version 2.11 if the Manjaro installer overwrote the previous info on the master boot record (but i dont know how i can check this).

so maybe now with Grub 2.11 there might be a chance of installing Solus successful ?

i also had asked in the Manjaro-Forum yesterday and answer number 8 explicitly pointed out to:

use GParted (where i did not see any option to "Save the newly created partition table" explicitly. i assumed that was done automatically)
shutdown
boot with Solus installer

https://forum.manjaro.org/t/how-can-i-install-budgie-solus-and-create-new-mbr/155371/8

i can only keep on trying later today.
if all fails again, another re-install of Manjaro...

ermo

BTO

Did you try actually following my instructions?

My instructions don't care which version of GRUB is installed where. It overwrites everything on the first 16 MiB of the disk in your laptop, ensuring you have a clean slate as far as bootloaders go.

blueicetwice

BLT, I was in the same boat, as you. Nine installation and the loss of nine pounds, not
to mention the loss of hair.

Solus would install as directed, but the grubhub would either not take or it
would delete a boot or two from my other OSs.

What worked for me in the end was this: https://www.supergrubdisk.org/wizard-restore-grub/

I was using the ten-year-old Rescatux 0.50, however, the newer version 0.73 should also work.

Go down to the Gruber line and press "restore grub." A very simple operation, if I can execute it.

GL and report back to Solus. Your promotion is awaiting.

nolan

searching for the laptop model on: https://support.hp.com/us-en/drivers/hp-elitebook-8560p-notebook-pc/model/5056950?sku=H0Q52EP, it seems to have support for uefi.
Could it be the case that the certificate is not enrolled and secure boot is enabled?

blueicetwice

BuzzPCSOS

Did you try the solution suggested by @blueicetwice , I have also used this marvellous utility to recover a newly installed system that would not boot and it worked very well.
I would also suggest a move over to ventoy USB disk imaging as that supports bios and uefi without reconfiguring. Also several ISOs can be written to the same stick without needing to rewrite the whole thing. Stick with it, Solus is worth the effort.

BTO

BuzzPCSOS
deaar @Buzz and dear @blueicetwice,
i tried this Rescatux and i can NOT RECOMMEND it !!!
i am afraid it is even MALWARE!
i pressed the "restore grub" button. it did something. ended with an error.

afterwards i tried to boot with both Solus and Manjaro installation sticks: NO WIFI NETWORK BLUETOOTH possible anymore.
everything gone.
i had to dismantle my laptop and remove the BIOS battery for 20 minutes in order to get everything working again.
i dont know what this Rescatux did, but it seems to be evil!

i can only hope that i dont have any MALWARE on my Master Boot Record now, after using this.

BuzzPCSOS

BTO I am sorry to hear about your bad experience with rescatux, it is a respected tool that has been helping people with similar issues to yours for many years now. It is a shame that you did not persevere with it's features as there is a wizard feature that can attempt to diagnose the problem and rebuild grub from scratch.
While tinkering with old bios run PCs it is very easy to corrupt or delete the grub loader and Rescatux has always diagnosed and fixed my problem.
I do not understand how anything that happens on your hard drive can affect the behaviour of a live environment, a computer will happily boot into a live environment with no hard drive installed. The issue you have here is looking much more like hardware issues.

blueicetwice

"deaar @Buzz and dear @blueicetwice,
i tried this Rescatux and i can NOT RECOMMEND it !!!
i am afraid it is even MALWARE!"

Nein, das ist nicht richtig !!! It is nicht Malware but rather Palware...

I have used if for at least ein decade. It even helf me in my first divorce. :-))

Your installation should be on the target drive, however, there will be no boot
order in the MBR. Try it again, BTO, and select another option, as the first may
not work. Rescatux, at times, needs a second try, in order to be successful.

The last time, it placed all the five OSs on the bootloader. It also changed one
of my three HDDs to a
GPT partition. Yes, four Linux and MicroToylets.

A good read on GPT partitions.

https://www.minitool.com/lib/gpt.html

BTO

ermo
dear ermo,
thanks for your support!
why did i not follow your instructions?

someone in the Manjaro-Forum wrote that its not good to just erase the master boot record. there always should remain a partition table + bootloader to not damage the whole disk. so it is advised to better overwrite the contents with new info than delete them.
today 2 tries to install Solus, but again the Solus-installer always only created a GPT Partition Table on the Master Boot Record. I assume this is the reason why my laptop is unbootable from that.
re-installed Manjaro and the Manjaro-installer creates a MSDOS Partition Table on the Master Boot Record and MBR-bootloader. from there Manjaro boots into a GRUB without problem.
As the Solus installer only creates GPT partition table on my MBR master boot record, my conclusion was that it would have made no difference if i had followed your instructions to erase the master boot record or not, because the system ends up unbootable in any case, wheter i had erased the MBR before or not.

the Manjaro-installer delivers MSDOS partition table out of the box.
if you have any more ideas what i could try...

pomon

Try to select Manual partitioning -> New partition table -> Select MDR -> Create partition / (if you want /home separately) and continue accordingly installer commands. When it informs about GPT, click ok and next.

nolan

BTO someone in the Manjaro-Forum wrote that its not good to just erase the master boot record. there always should remain a partition table + bootloader to not damage the whole disk

That is in the case that the user don't want to delete the mbr partition for "reuse" in later installations.
I recommend, if doing a clean install of solus, to not conserve any partitions and letting the installer to do what it needs to do, or for the advanced user, make manual partitioning.
Just take into account Manjaro is not Solus, Solus is independent and implements some things different compared to other distros; one example is that solus uses clr-boot-manager to manage boot in uefi or bios environments and not directly in to grub.

blueicetwice

BTO

Solus-installer always only created a GPT Partition Table on the Master Boot Record. I assume this is the reason why my laptop is unbootable from that."

BTO, my rig remodeled in 2011, it did the same thing, placing a GPT on one of the HDD. The MBR, is out-of-order and needs to be repaired. Reinstalling Solus, will not solve this issue, IMHO.

PLEAZE READ DAS: https://www.minitool.com/lib/gpt.html

ermo

BTO someone in the Manjaro-Forum wrote that its not good to just erase the master boot record. there always should remain a partition table + bootloader to not damage the whole disk. so it is advised to better overwrite the contents with new info than delete them.

I don't really see the point in trying to help you if you refuse to do the steps exactly as I laid them out.

There was a reason I laid them out that way and part of that reason was that, this way, the solus installer and boot manager could do exactly what they need to do from a clean slate.

But if you don't want to do that and instead want to insist on following Manjaro advice when you're trying to install Solus and asking for help on accomplishing this on the Solus forum, well, I guess there's no getting through to you.

Best of luck I guess -- I'm officially out of this conversation.