Make Solseek installed by default

Xoph

Overview:
While I understand the decision and reasoning for Discover or Gnome Software to be the default package installer, the fact is they are flawed and more prone to issues. I am not suggesting replacing them as the default. However Solseek would serve as a great backup and it is very minimal in size (_190kb) and requirements (fzf) that are not included already on the default install of Solus. It would also give lighter option for those that don't using the DE and instead like WMs.

Feature Parity
Update Notifications ✅
Manage Installed Packages/Flatpaks ✅
Search both command line and catalog packages/flatpaks ✅
Firmware update ✅
Distrobox updates ✅
System updates ✅
Package tools, checks, exports ✅
Missing
Driver specific search ❌
Font specific search ❌
Screenshots in description ❌

I say this all as someone who has come over from Windows within the last year to the Linux Desktop. I have used Linux on the server side for years. But, I have found on Solus that Solseek just works better in general than what KDE and Gnome offer currently. This is not to say that Solseek is "better" or as feature complete, just in general usability even coming from a traditional GUI user.

This is also not meant to offend the Solus team. You guys are great and while I did not get much time to use Solus SC as it was gone soon after I started, I totally understand the reasoning behind dropping it between Python 2 as I have worked on project with it and yeah it sucks to try and transition, not to mention maintaining and independent software manager. Also a reason why Solseek is a great backup and tool.

Anyway just my small input based on reading the forum and my own perspective since joining this great little community.

BuzzPCSOS

Xoph I suppose a simple method would be to build your own bash script to run on any fresh install of Solus.
Something like this maybe.

#!/usr/bin/env bash

echo "Full update."
sudo eopkg up -y

echo "Replace Discover"
sudo eopkg rm discover
sudo eopkg it solseek

echo "Script has now finished."
echo "Now reboot please"

I keep a script like this to install all my favourite programs and adjust a few settings on Solus. As I keep the current version of Solus on a Ventoy enabled USB it means that I can simply keep the script on my stick next to the ISO, ready to use directly after installing.

Harvey

No. Its a TUI. If people are fine with using the command line they can just use eopkg, flatpak and fwupdmgr directly or install solseek. Not everything people prefer needs to be installed by default, if users want it, install it.

Xoph

Harvey Well at least you guys are efficient. TraceyC says discuss it in Feedback, I post in feedback and it gets shot down with little discussion on the first reply. But I get it. Don't necessarily agree with all of your points, but I get it. Anyway it was just my opinion with all the known upstream issues with Discover.

Harvey

I don't pussy foot around, if I know something can not / should not / will not happen, I say so.

This covers more than just this thread but other comments:

Solus will not be replacing the existing sc's with solseek by default.
Solus have no interest or resources to develop our own software center.
solseek is not developed by Solus and will stop working when Solus moves to moss unless the developer updates it to add support.
We will not be spending resources on handling a potential migration away from solseek should its developer lose interest / it stops working. No staff development efforts to fix it. No writing scripts to handle its removal + another epoch repo because it might break spectacularly if the you try deprecate it when its the one handling the update transaction as was required for solus-sc and I would argue we would HAVE to do if we start shipping it by default.
A new software center such as a solus-sc re-write that does not use packagekit (So its distro agnostic) will be rejected unless AerynOS plan on making their own as we do not plan to keep using eopkg and don't need another migration headache.
A software center that uses packagekit (Like discover and gnome-software do) will have the same issue of not displaying things that do not have its own metadata, .desktop file and icon, which is a LOT of stuff.
If we were to ship it by default, staff should be testing it. This alone means its not happening, we have enough to do already.
"Upstream issues with discover" there may be some upstream issues but seeing as I have 2 VMs, 2 laptops and my main desktop all using discover and it works without issue as it does for many others. There is clearly more at play then some unreferenced upstream issues that I don't see other distros having.
Not every tool people might find useful needs to be installed by default. If you want it, you can install it. Just like people do for alternate web browsers, editors, compilers etc.

I could go on and on. Ultimately I do not have the authority on my own to prevent Solus from doing this, but as you can see from above its not going to happen so I am back to my first sentence.

Original-Syn

I was trying to ignore this post for obvious reasons, but I think I should give my take on this. So here it is...

Look, I truly appreciate that people like Solseek. I am a little shocked to the level people like it, to be honest. It literally started out as a tool for personal use. However, I agree with Harvey

I built this tool as a simple alternative for those of us that like a more minimal approach versus the Discover / Gnome Software, but many users out there want the full graphical software center and that is fine. Think about Pacseek with Arch, which is a very popular TUI package manager. It is far more popular than Solseek and has been developed for 3 years. Yet Pacseek isn't even available in the Arch main repositories, it is in the AUR. Solseek is barely at 2 months, so even if it was a worthwhile replacement it doesn’t have a history. Discover /GS are standard tools across many distros that people have become accustomed to, whether I personally like them or not.

I also agree that the Solus team does not need yet another package manager to have to worry about. It just adds more complications to a team that is already putting in a lot of work.

Same goes for the concern for the developer, me in this case. While I do not plan on going anywhere, I am not part of the Solus team. I am a community member and contribute what I can, but nowhere near what they do.

Do I plan to add some of the things that @Harvey mentioned like moss support? Yes, actually working on it. However again, that is no guarantee and since again I am an independent developer, they don’t know what I plan or don’t plan nor am I following their schedule. So it creates an issue when they are trying to plan for the future. They cannot trust that Solseek will be where they need it. I barely am up to 3 languages for support as well.

Again I sincerely appreciate the thought, but I have to agree with @Harvey. Solseek is such an easy tool for people to install and use. I also appreciate what @Harvey and the team have to deal with. They don't need something else to mess with. Especially a little 150kb bash script app. 😉 Harvey was the one that truly helped me learn the packaging system due to my many mis-steps that first release.

TLDR
Do I intend to keep improving Solseek? Yes.
Do I intend to include moss support? Yes, working on it and testing it
Do I use Packagekit? Yes, I mix it along with native tools
Do I think it should be a default install? No

brent

Harvey A new software center such as a solus-sc re-write that does not use packagekit (So its distro agnostic) will be rejected unless AerynOS plan on making their own as we do not plan to keep using eopkg and don't need another migration headache.

^ that's interesting to see what Aeryn does.

There's a theme in every bullet point here: in flux; up in the hair at present. Exciting times, I say it again.

@Xoph it was an idea. Great tool, most here agree.
@Original-Syn
audacious stopped seeing my external drive with music on it.

so....went to "desktop apps" in solseek, then clicked "audio-video"

450 packages but skimmed thru nicely. I like the non-lollypop minimalist players so Deadbeef is up. and already it can't read metadata worth a crap but it does see the external music drive. looks like we deprecated Museeks so I journey on for a minimalist player that is in polaris. thanks for making this easy.

@Xoph sorry to derail slightly

Xoph

Harvey I am sorry it was not my intent to question you on it, but re-reading it does come across that way. I do get your point as well as Original-Syn with his response. My excitement has gotten the better of me. After I first switched to Linus Desktop from Windows I did not really get excited about any distro or feel comfortable until I got to Solus. Solseek stoked that a bit as well, which I know probably sounds weird for long time Linux users.

brent No worries, I enjoy your passion that you display in this forum.

Axios

I am glad all is cool because I really like Solseek.

Harvey

brent ^ that's interesting to see what Aeryn does.

To be clear I am not aware of any discussions of AerynOS team members stating they plan on writing their own software center. I think they're going to just write their own packagekit backend for moss once its further along so discover / gnome-software / cosmic-store can use it. Which is what Solus and the majority of Linux distros do.

It is my understanding that while those SC's already exist in AerynOS they are not currently able to integrate with moss for packages in the repository and are just frontends for flatpak atm. Although I do not keep a close eye on their plans/status.

brent

Harvey To be clear I am not aware of any discussions of AerynOS team members stating they plan on writing their own software center.

I didn't think you did. It was just an interesting variable.

Harvey I think they're going to just write their own packagekit backend for moss once its further along so discover / gnome-software / cosmic-store can use it. Which is what Solus and the majority of Linux distros do

the 'most distros do' trend has been noticed the last 3-4 years...and while these middlemen (not to be sexist) apps don't perform nearly as well as a native package manager I understand the reasons. Labor and resources are finite and can be better directed towards things with a higher priority.

Harvey Although I do not keep a close eye on their plans/status.

Me either. I used to. Had problems with last iso so didn't experience Aeryn yet. Serpent yes, Aeryn no. But gnome/kde-only DE options are also a new trend so there you go 🙂. Cant' wait to see where both distros go--

Original-Syn

brent I had some conversations with a few over using Solseek or a fork of it on AerynOS. I told them once I got close to what I considered a 1.x type level, I would look at adding moss support. I am working on modularizing the system package side of it so that it will detect if moss or eopkg is installed and use that one to handle the package management side. They are progressing on the appstream side of things, which is what I use for the Desktop Apps. So initially it may be more limited than on Solus, but in my testing on AerynOS many of the basics work well.

It is nice as it gives me a chance to get ahead of the game for when Solus moves to moss.

Same as with Solus, I expect it to be a tool that can be used for those that want it, not as a main system.

Harvey

Xoph

Its okay, I know I can sometimes come off as overly dismissive or aggressive when its usually not what I intended.

Suggestions are welcome and I am glad you are enjoying Solus and Solseek, it is good to see something made by a member of the community become popular enough that people want it to be installed by default.

AlphaElwedritsch

2 cents

Never use community software in your project. (For all the reasons already mentioned)
@Xoph , the discussion has started after all 😉